Unknown Wakizashi???

[Shinigami117S]

Hi Everyone,

I have a Wakizashi that I have absolutely no info on. If anyone has anything like where its from or how old it is, please reply! Guesses would be good too!

The nakago was messed with possibly around ww2. The blade length is 52.6 cm long. overall length is 64.4 cm long.

Thank You

[uwe]

Hi Shinigami117S.....?

Quite difficult to tell you anything with substance based on the pics. The nakago looks very odd to me, obviously dilettantish modified

Some close up from kissaki and mune would be good........

Uwe

[Shinigami117S]

Hi

Thanks for replying!

Is the last pic better?

Do you have any guesses to how old it may be?

[Stephen]

the reason he put a ? behind your name is we like members to use their real name in signing off.

 

the blade looks very old and very tired. best not to sink any money into it.

[uwe]

Hmmm.....

there are some flaws and some pitting in the kisaki area.

Otherwise, rather long waki with apparently darker steel surface. Yasurime, hada and boshi indistinguishable. Hamon, partly midare based sugu-ha mixed with..?.., maybe nioi-deki Shape leads me to koto / late muromachi. Hehe....seems to be a game of dice without further informations :?

I`m sure there are more knowledgeable people around here...............hey folks come on, brainstorming :lol:

Uwe

[Shinigami117S]

Is it possible that it was cut down from a tachi?

[uwe]

I don`t think so.

But "we" need to know: moto haba, saki haba and kasane........and the sword in hand

Uwe

[Shinigami117S]

saki haba 4mm

moto haba 6mm

kasane?? >>motohaba> 6mm then about 19cm down the blade it goes to 4mm all the way to the saki haba

 

Sword>> motohaba>6666666555554444444444444444444444444

roughly lol

[uwe]

..........what you measured is kasane :D

Saki haba = width at kisaki

Moto haba = width at machi

Uwe

 

PS: What Stephen mentioned above, please sign your posts with your real name. It`s one of the few rules on this board

[Shinigami117S]

so its pretty much a late koto sword?

[uwe]

yep........I guess so.

Uwe

[Brian]

  Shinigami117S said:

so its pretty much a late koto sword?

Just a little reminder to any newcommers (and a lot of the veterans who forget sometimes) that Koto means early sword (to=sword) and therefore by saying Koto sword, you are saying "early sword sword."

Brian

[Bruno]

Munemachi and hamachi are close to unexistant anymore, it seems to be a sign of a many times polished blade.It could be hard for a habaki to fit.

 

IMveryHO

[uwe]

Thanks Brian,

I almost always forget that the To is "still inside"

 

and

 

Yes Bruno,

it`s tired. I`m afraid near to death

 

Uwe

[Shinigami117S]

the habaki fits perfect! it doesnt rattle at all! :D i dont know if its the original one though..

[Shinigami117S]

I did some research in this new sword book i got and the closest thing i could get it to was the Yamashiro tradition , the Awataguchi school. according to the book this style was around the late heian and early kamakura period...but didn't wakizashi's come about in the early muromachi period?

[Veli]

Hi!

 

You are correct, shinogi-zukuri wakizashi did not appear until muromachi period. Older blades of the said type do exist, but they are usually tachi that have been cut-down later. Now if you consider the possibility of your blade being a cut-down Awataguchi tachi, you have to ask yourself, whether the sugata resembles the uppermost 2/3 of a Yamashiro tachi. Furthermore, Awataguchi blades are characterized by extremely high level of workmanship, like in this example:

 

http://www.nihonto.us/Awataguchi%20Kuniyasu.htm

 

I personally do not find a great resemblance... Sugata, hada, hamon... all look different

 

BR, Veli

[george trotter]

Hi

There is something strange here. This sword seems to have almost no munemachi or hamachi and is described as tired almost to death, yet the habaki fits perfectly and does not rattle.

In a recent thread Bruno, Jean and myself were discussing this very point of tired blade thin-ness , small machi and nakago thickness leading to problems with a properly fitting habaki. Can you tell us how thick the nakago is please? You said that the blade kasane at the machi was 6mm...what is the thickest part of the nakago?

Regards,

George.

[Shinigami117S]

The thickest part of the nakago is 6mm also. Im not sure but it might have a habaki that was made for it in the past 200 years or so. It seems the habaki is made differently than the usual way. the part where the mune meets the habaki isnt flush. The mune gets thin where the habaki meets, and it looks like it was made to where the mune sits about 1mm inside the habaki.

[george trotter]

Hi,

thanks for checking the nakago...it seems from the measurement that the blade is not wildly thinned by polishing, or else the blade is o-suriage and has completely lost the original nakago. The problem is that the style and shape of the nakago is "clumsy"...it is very un-natural in its shape and lines and does not look like a continuation of the blade as would be found in an o-suriage blade. I suppose it could be one of the crude "delivered in bundles" swords of the sengoku jidai which started with the Onin War in 1467 and lasted in constant warfare until the seizure of power by the Tokugawa around 1600...this was a bad time for the quality of swords.

Sorry, can't be of more help,

George.

[Shinigami117S]

the main reason it looks really weird is that someone probably during or shortly after ww2 filed the nakago round... The original file marks are still barely visible though.

[Mark Green]

Hi Hinoki, and Gang,

I'm with George, I think it is likely koto mass produced. To my eyes it does look very tired, and the boshi, looks like it is just hanging on. But, It could just be the shape the polish is in.

And, as it has survived to these times, the quality my not be that bad. It looks like there may be some interesting 'things' going on in that steel.

I feel that is mostly the original Nakago, likely messed with for ww2 mounting as stated. Was it found in any kind of mounts? As the habaki fits well, it may have been made for the sword, as is. Just prior to it's last mounting.

Not so bad, if you got it for a good price, and it is giving you joy to behold, as it seems it is.

Mark G

[Shinigami117S]

The sword wasnt in gunto fittings, it was in a very beat up black saya and a hilt that was just slapped on to make it look "good". The blade itself was sand papered so nothing was visible in the steel at all. It used to be a family sword prior to ww2. It came with a tag on it with an address for return. I paid 600 bucks for it at a gunshow.