Lady`s kaiken (suicide dagger)

[SwordGuyJoe]

All,

I am writing because I came across on eBay a "lady`s kaiken (suicide dagger)" Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-sword-tant ... 53de7cf92b.

 

I am curious, as I have never heard of these, what the difference between a tanto and a lady's kaiken is. If asked what this blade was, I quickly and confidently would have said a tanto - and incorrectly(?). Please read this as me questioning myself and not questioning the seller. I appreciate the insight.

[John A Stuart]

Hi Joe, Sometimes wiki can say something much easier than me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiken_(dagger)

Maybe copy and paste the URL that bracket at the end won't enter correctly. John

[sanjuro]

A kaiken used by a lady in Japan is more likely to be for defence rather than suicide. A well brought up lady may only commit suicide if her her honour is otherwise not going to remain intact. It sounds very dramatic on an auction listing though. Incidentally, its quite a nice little blade.

 

The female form of seppuku is called Jigai. Ladies dont disembowel themselves, they cut the carotid artery.

 

Now, how the hell can you tell a lady's tanto from a small mans tanto? Seriously.... I really dont know. Is it a matter of blade length perhaps?

[SwordGuyJoe]

Then my question is, are all Kaiken tantos or are all Tantos Kaiken? I am still trying to understand the difference. Thanks!

[John A Stuart]

懐剣 kaiken from breast, pocket or purse and sword

短刀 tanto short and sword

A kaiken is a tanto, but, is kept hidden in the sleeve or within the kimono. However I see samurai women wear them in the obi as would a man. They are ceremonial objects. So a kaiken is a tanto, but, all tanto are not kaiken. John

[SwordGuyJoe]

Much clearer. Thank you so much!

[Henry Wilson]

Whether a sword is Kaiken or not depends on the kind of koshirae that the blade is fitted in. For a sword to be concealed in a kimono comfortably the tsuba would have to be very flat with respect to the profile of the koshirae or not present at all.

 

IMHO I think the tanto in a shirasya that is linked is being slightly misrepresented as it appears to only come in a shirasaya which makes it just a boring old, (but none the less) very nice tanto.

 

Also I think Kaiken were more for self-defense rather than suicide. I have heard people call them something like (please check my Japanese) 守り刀 or mamorigatana where 守る means to protect.

[John A Stuart]

You are right Henry. The kaiken has to have a slim profile. That is why they are in aikuchi koshirae, no tsuba. I've seen a few that were obviously for women, the decoration was decidedly feminine. They were not only the purvey of women, however, in fact, yakusa reportedly used them. here is a link for reference. John

 

http://www.maximom.com.ar/index_archivos/KOSHIRAE.htm

[Henry Wilson]

Actually, I have a kaiken with a flat (flushed to the same width as the koshirae) horn tsuba, a style I think called hamidashi. I intially thought it was aikuchi with a thick wedge between two seppa but just reading what I have written........ that means tsuba, doesn't it?LOL

[Eric H]

A Kaiken or Yomeiri Tanto

 

15.3 cm - uchizori - motohaba 2 cm - kasane 1 cm

 

Yomeiri Tanto...a small sized Tanto was handed over to a bride by her parents for self-protection in the case when a daughter married. It is sake of readiness to marry into an another family. Such a traditional custom continues in a good family even in modern times.

 

Eric

[Toryu2020]

All -

I would add that the mamorigatana (Yomeiri tanto) was for protection - protection against treacherous in laws indeed but also carried the message from a father who had gone to the trouble of arranging a good match as in; "Don't come home alive!"

 

Tough love indeed!

-tom

[Paul Martin]

I would further add, that mamori-gatana, or Omamori-gatana also serve as spiritual protectors for brides and newly born babies for protection from bad spirits. They are often worn in the obi next to the breast on brides, you can often see them peeping out with the tassel on the end. They may be real or symbolic in this case. They are also used in funeral rites (mainly symbolical tanto are used in this case) to protect the person on their next journey. This may its roots in Kofun burial rituals.

 

The koshirae for brides often depict images like snow laden bamboo, a wish from a father for his daughter to persevere and bear the weight of the new conditions that have been put upon her, as new brides often go to live in the grooms household. If all fails and she feels that her, or her family's honor is at stake, the tanto can be used to defend herself or commit jigai.

 

The All Japan Swordsmiths Association hold an annual exhibition of newly made Omamori-gatana and koshirae at various venues around Japan. Originally, it was only tanto, but now it has been expanded to long swords too, as they also incorporate elements of spiritual protection. Additionally, there are still sometimes exorcisms of houses where a sword is used in the rituals.

 

Best

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Indeed, there is more than a suicide behind a blade presented to a woman.

 

Interesting examples of such custom-made blades for a bride is given by Kunihira Kawachi in his "The Art of the Japanese Sword".

 

Touching the description of the one on page 10 : "When you both are quiet flowers blossoming. Prepared (ordered?) by your father".

 

 

The ones on page 11 and 13 are very interesting too.

 

I remember Guido commenting about the blade made for the Crown Prince's newborn, but have no pics of it.

I can only wonder what a beauty it must be.

 

Regarding blades used as funeral items, this is possibly one of the earliest practices still surviving, going back to bronze age.

 

Blades holds a special place in Japanese heart (as well as other objects ), enough to deserve a ceremony at the end of their "life" :

 

 

 

http://www.seki-Japan.com/maturi/kuyo/kuyo.htm

[Eric H]

Carlo, I suppose it's the "Guardian Tanto" for Prince Hisahito.

Eric

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Thanks Eric.

[Jean]

Eric,

 

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

It will be easier to read the guardian tanto's story here :D

 

 

I've noticed the european ambiance ot the room

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

It will be easier to read the guardian tanto's story here :D

 

No, it would be better to have a picture of the blade rather than something we've already read.

 

If you want to add something *really* new to the discussion for the sake of the community,

add a picture of that blade.