Am I on the right track?

[Lewis B]

1 hour ago, GeorgeLuucas said:

Fair enough, and thank you!
 

I think Sue Koto Mino does make sense. 
 

I appreciate the frankness - I wouldn’t be here if I weren’t prepared for that 

 

Thanks again, much appreciated!
Slowly but surely I’m learning a little every day.

Cheers,

-Sam

I think you're doing the blade an injustice with a Sue Koto Mino attribution. The blades I have seen from that period have jihada that are far less refined with inferior activity. Of course I could be wrong but I would not rule out an earlier production.

[GeorgeLuucas]

Fear not! I am not drawing any conclusions just yet. 
 

To Jacques point, judging a sword via photos just isn’t the way. 
 

I’m getting some sunny weather this week. I hope to take another close look with fresh eyes and all the new ideas y’all have helped me with. 
 

Even after that, I’ll have my ideas, but I won’t know for sure unless I send it in for shinsa; or get a togishi’s expert in-hand assessment. But for now my plan is to admire it and keep it oiled. 
 

I appreciate and have enjoyed the discussion very much,

Cheers,

-Sam

 

[Jacques D.]

I forgot to say that it was the shinogi ji in masame that made me think of Mino in Yamato the jigane of the shinogi ji is the same as that of the Ji

[GeorgeLuucas]

Thank you Jacques, that is a good observation. I'll be taking a take a close look this weekend.
 

That Yamato Senjuin blade that you shared in a link earlier appears to have what looks like masame in the shinogi. Is that just a trick of the polish? The  photography? Or my own inexperienced eyes? 
https://sanmei.com/c...27604_S2823_PUP.html

Photo for reference:
 

[Jacques D.]

The hada of the Senjuin school is itame mixed with masame (sometimes hadatachi) the hada is the same in ji and shinogi-ji.  

[Rivkin]

Personal opinion:

The difference between the shinogi ji and ji hada is indeed Mino kantei point, but its interpreted in a sense that strong masame is not a characteristic ji hada for Muromachi Mino. The most Yamato-looking, Zenjo school, can have some nagare here and there, but generally one is going to see some widely spaced itame and mokume.

The hue is going to be black. Here the steel is bright.

Most importantly, hotsure and nijuba are uncharacteristic for Mino works in suguha. Their hamon is mostly devoid of activity - often nioi-deki, sometimes with some ko nie and ashi in the upper portion.

Nioi-guchi can be rather bright. In Zenjo school one often encounters bo utsuri. Also, Zenjo hamon tends to be a bit more narrow, even with later generations.

The closest one gets is early Kanemoto/Kanetomo lineage, which has a bit of hotsure and nagare close to the ha.

Still, presence of packed long parallel masame lines in the ji is uncharacteristic, and rather than long lines in ko nie within hamon one expects shorter but more nie based activity. Darker hue, hada lines are more sparse.

I don't get a feeling its a good match for this blade.

[GeorgeLuucas]

Thank you all very much. I’m going to spend some time reading up on Zenjo school.

I realize helping newbies like me with swords like this must get exhausting from time to time. You’ve been very generous with your time and info and I’m grateful. 

 

I very much appreciate the constructive conversation and observations on my sword.
 

Thank you!

-Sam  

[Jacques D.]

Quote

 

Their hamon is mostly devoid of activity - often nioi-deki, sometimes with some ko nie and ashi in the upper portion.

Nioi-guchi can be rather bright. In Zenjo school one often encounters bo utsuri.

 

 

 

Mino den is a mixture of Yamato den and Soshu den, the hamon is mostly in nie deki and hataraki are not rare (nie kuzure, sunagashi, kinsuji etc.). As for the bo utsuri of the Senjo school, I'd like to see an example. To my knowledge, the utsuri in this school is shirake.  

 

Quote

Kanemoto/Kanetomo lineage

 

??????

[Rivkin]

Actually if one is to judge the blade by what papers it is likely to receive, than its more simple.

Bring it to NTHK (non NPO) shinsa. 

I'll bet 100$ it papers to Echizen Seki.

[Jacques D.]

Quote

 

I suspect its kambun shinto Sendai or comparable smith. That would be my 50% bet.

If not, its a high grade Tegai work... maybe 1380s. 20%.

Kai Mihara... 30% probability.

 

 

Start 

 

We go through Zengo

 

Quote

I'll bet 100$ it papers to Echizen Seki.

Finish

 

Would it be too much to ask you to be a little consistent? 

[reinhard]

Hi Sam,

 

When one gets stuck in kantei after having inspected sugata, hada and hamon, it is often helpful to have a close look at the boshi.

It is often the most individual feature on a blade otherwise hard to pin down. Telling from your pics I see a pretty clear hakkikake/ kaen boshi.

 

reinhard

 

 

 

[GeorgeLuucas]

Hi Reinhard, thank you! 
 

Good observation, and I agree, I also see hakikake boshi. I’m still stumped for now, but I am enjoying admiring the sword and looking into the possibilities. 

To address an observation made earlier in the thread: I carefully observed the shongi-ji, and am stumped if I’m seeing masame or evidence of burnishing from polishing. There is an open grain area that appears to resemble a continuation of the itame hada into the shinogi ji. I was unable to get a good photo of that, and I am unconvinced one way or the other. 

 

Thank you! 
Photos of kissaki near dime for scale, 
-Sam