Interesting video on Body Test Cuts

[Kyoto-13]

 

Found a interesting video on body test cuts performed with Nihonto.

 

G

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks for posting this.  He explains a common mistake in translating the cut test.  It is often said a blade passed a "2 Body" cut test or "3 Body" cut test.  But according to this guy, and it makes sense, the number is the cut position number "2" or "3" which were the most common choices for testing.

 

Now, this begs the question - why don't we see cut tests of the other locations, say "12" or "7"?  Maybe because they weren't hardly ever chosen?

[Bugyotsuji]

Not buying that just yet.
There were indeed three positions across the middle of the do, 一の胴、ニの胴 and 三の胴 (Ichi no dō, ni no dō, and san no dō) among others, but that is different from what we see inscribed in gold. 賦ツ胴 Futatsu (no) dō means two upper bodies, IMHO, and I’ll stick with that until someone proves it otherwise.

 

For example, this shows Yamada school on the left, old names on the right.

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Which reminds me that I seem to recall a translation or 2 that did specify, in those terms, the cut position.  Anyone else recall something like that?

[Sutraken]

As far as I know, Georg‘s Masayuki has a cutting test result on its nakago, where the performed cut is called golden wild goose. Probably each standard cut has such a specific name. 

[Bugyotsuji]

Second from the top on the left is 雁金 Karigane, = (golden) wild goose.

[ROKUJURO]

I have seen drawings where two bodies were stacked one on top of the other, so there might be a misunderstanding.

[Sutraken]

 

 

  On 6/18/2024 at 3:19 PM, ROKUJURO said:

I have seen drawings where two bodies were stacked one on top of the other, so there might be a misunderstanding.

Expand  

 

Hello Jean, 

 

if I remember correctly, in Markus Sesko‘s book tameshigiri there are some pictures, where two dead men are fixed one on the other with wooden sticks through the arms, so both bodies can be cut at once. There was also the habit to use tsubas made of lead to improve the cutting results from time to time. 

 

All the best

[ROKUJURO]

  On 6/18/2024 at 6:27 PM, Sutraken said:

.....There was also the habit to use tsubas made of lead to improve the cutting results from time to time.....

Expand  

Lead TSUBA (no plural) to make the sword heavier? Interesting! I read they used a special TSUKA without any TOSOGU for TAMESHIGIRI of newly made blades.

[Sutraken]

  On 6/18/2024 at 6:55 PM, ROKUJURO said:

Lead TSUBA (no plural) to make the sword heavier? Interesting! I read they used a special TSUKA without any TOSOGU for TAMESHIGIRI of newly made blades.

Expand  

 

Yes, lead tsuba make swords heavier, so the probability to cut multiple bodies is higher. This seems to be reasonable, because the customers wanted to get more or less spectacular results for each particular sword. The whole process was as expensive as the commissioned sword, so there was a financial interest to please the customers as well as possible. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Oh I wish I could remember all the things I used to know!

 

I HAVE Markus' book "TAMESHIGIRI".  The photo you reference is on page 174:

 

On the next page, 175, Markus discusses multiple examples of cuts, 3 cuts through one body, one cut through 3 bodies, 2 body cuts, etc.  And these were described on the nakago in detail.  He also mentions blades that were tested multiple times by 2 different testers.  

 

I have a vague memory of that old feller in that video from another video, stating things that weren't exactly right.

 

SO, disregard my original post, however it has all been a good refresher!

[Sutraken]

Most newly made swords with such inscriptions were tested shortly after they were finished, but there are also examples, which were tested several times over a relatively long period of time. Some tested koto swords also have such different cutting results from the two leading tameshigiri families chiseled into the nakago.

[DoTanuki yokai]

 I have a heavy Tsuba (>360grams) and the first thing that came into my mind when I mount it on a sword was that it  ruins the balance.
Much more then I have thought and it does not feel like it would do the cutting a favor imo. 
So I’m not convinced by super heavy Tsuba for cutting tests but I have seen drawings of the special tsuka that is used, not mentioning any special Tsuba. 
 

And like Piers said the way Japanese language count things made clear that they cut more then one body. 

[Bugyotsuji]

  On 6/18/2024 at 6:55 PM, ROKUJURO said:

Lead TSUBA (no plural) to make the sword heavier? Interesting! I read they used a special TSUKA without any TOSOGU for TAMESHIGIRI of newly made blades.

Expand  

Yes, I've seen a couple of examples of these tsuka, plain wood like for shirasaya, but larger and longer with a series of mekugi holes to enable lengthening of the tsuka for a greater grip and swing. There was also a device to clamp the tsuka to the nakago more firmly, but I do not recall exactly how it looked or functioned. (Some years back.) Maybe it was in a split configuration designed to be placed over and brought together on either side of the tsuka...(?)