NCO id help please

[Justin54]

Sorry first post was without pics ( my fault) . Hi I am hoping for some help to id this sword please . I have known of this sword since the mid 1980s but have only recently been able to get it . I know very little about sword except that according to the previous owner , his father bought it back from the Pacific at the end of WW2 . The blade has the number 62368 and a v small character marked on the blade . I cannot find any other markings on the blade or scabbard . Handle is alloy while the Tsuba is iron . many thanks for your help regards Justin 

[Justin54]

[paul griff]

Hello Justin,

                    It’s 100% genuine Type 95 Japanese NCO’s shin Gunto 3rd pattern and probably made at the Nagoya arsenal ( need to see the little stamps on the metal ring around the hilt to confirm this )…Nice to see it’s original paint on the hilt ( tsuka ) and scabbard ( saya )….Best to get that screw back in and with NCO most swords don’t undo it and take it apart as 99% have arsenal made blades…

Regards,

              Paul..

[ROKUJURO]

Justin,

please show both sides of the NAKAGO (tang) of the blade in well focused photos, tip upwards, taken on a dark background with light from the side.

[robinalexander]

Hi Justin welcome.

 

You have a genuine Type 95 NCO sword (Pattern 3).

 

Unlike Officer's Type 98's, yours is not meant to be pulled apart because they often don't go back together as tightly and there is nothing to see under all that aluminium etc. BUT as u have already done that give i5 a good oil with a rag, take lots of good pics and put it back together.

 

Check this out  for starters.

 

http://ohmura-study.net/957.html

 

From what I can see, you have a nice example 

[robinalexander]

Woops ...others chimed in quickly.  But anyway, the 'V' is probably a 'W' ... maybe mis-struck?

[Justin54]

pics of tang , tiny stamp on one side nothing on other side .

[Justin54]

[robinalexander]

Looks like a 'Na' inspection stamp from the Nagoya Arsenal.

[Michaelr]

Justin, welcome to the best board, with the best people for help whit Japanese swords. Like others have said it looks like you have a nice straight type 95. This will probably not be your only or last Japanese sword as they become very addictive. Good luck collecting and have fun. Next purchase should be some good books. They will probably cost more than some swords you will see but worth every penny. 
  MikeR

[robinalexander]

Sorry Justin...when u said "a v small stamp" I thought it was a miss hit 'W" which a few of mine have.

 

U clearly meant 'very small'  ...sorry...my old moment 

[ROKUJURO]

Justin,

I'll try again: Please show photos oriented tip upwards, taken on a dark background with light from the side.

[Kiipu]

On 6/7/2024 at 2:51 AM, Justin54 said:

tiny stamp on one side nothing on other side.

 

As already stated above, both the blade and tang have Nagoya Arsenal final inspection marks.

名

 

Usually the tang is longer on Type 95s and have an additional hole located towards the bottom for a hatome neji 鳩目ねじ [grommet screw].  For some unknown reason, the tang was apparently shortened.

[GeorgeLuucas]

I've always been told to leave Type 95s in their tsuka, because it's difficult to get them to fit together tight when you re-assemble them. It's cool to actually see one disassembled. 

I've flipped the images so we can see them properly oriented. 

Cheers,
Sincerely,
-Sam

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2024 by GeorgeLuucas
deleted a question that I answered myself

[John C]

8 hours ago, Justin54 said:

pics of tang

Justin:

Not sure if it was mentioned, however these were not signed because they were mass produced. Other than the arsenal stamp, you usually won't find a signature or date (in case you were hoping for one).

 

John C.

[Justin54]

Many thanks for all your help with my sword. It has been taken apart so many times in the past that the handle etc are loose . I think maybe most people think that Japanese swords are all ancient and hide  signatures under the handle which is clearly not the case . I don't intend on cleaning the sword up at all as the finish on it is honest age with no new or bad rust . The blade has a couple of small chips but no rust except for on part of the tang. 

 

[Michael T]

Hi Justin,
Was the screw drilled out to remove the blade from the handle? The metal shavings in the drill hole still look very fresh...
Michael

[Kiipu]

On 6/7/2024 at 1:32 AM, Justin54 said:

I cannot find any other markings on the blade or scabbard.

 

Does the scabbard have a serial number; if so, what is the number?

[Justin54]

Michael T ,  I don't know when the bolt was removed but it would have been quite a long time ago if it was . Maybe somebody looking for a signature or date , I'm not sure . Oval hole also looks original.

I cannot find any numbers on scabbard or handle without removing the patins which I would rather not do .

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Justin,

The serial number of the saya (scabbard) is on the face of the throat, like this:

[Justin54]

Thanks Bruce will have a look.

[Justin54]

No numbers to be found Bruce 

[Justin54]

a couple more pics , no numbers here either 

[Justin54]

[Justin54]

[Justin54]

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks Justin.  My copper gunto has no number on the saya throat either.  It's likely they were factory replacements after the original got damaged in one way or another.  

 

These Nagoya 95s with steel fittings will sometimes have stamps on the fuchi, but not always.  When you see them, they are usually very faint.  The stamps would be number 9 on this chart:

[DTM72]

I guess I'll be the bad guy and point out some issues that I see.

The blade number, being in the 60,000 range would put it in the initial type of NCO sword, following the copper handled versions. This group rannged up into the low 100,000's when the middle type came out. The initial type had the thick brass tsuba and copper fuchi with the various markings. The middle type has the thinner plain iron tsuba and black fuchi. This example is a mix of both versions.

It could be that this was damaged in the field, and a field repair was made, keeping the original blade and tsuka, but adding the iron tsuba, iron fuchi, thick iron seppa, and possibly the non-serialized saya. <-- all just guesses.

 

All still legitimate NCO parts, just a mash-up.

[Conway S]

It’s also missing one seppa (spacer). You should have two seppa. 
 

Conway

[Justin54]

Many thanks for all the forum members help and honesty with their descriptions of my sword. I need to know the good and the bad  to form a proper assesment of the sword.  cheers Justin