Brian Posted June 17 Report Share Posted June 17 Yes and yes :-) https://www.japanese...dindex.com/emura.htm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNSSHOGUN Posted June 17 Report Share Posted June 17 Gendaito yes, the quality can be up and down with Emura blades - but anyone would be happy to find one for $300 today. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoul Posted June 17 Author Report Share Posted June 17 Thanks guys! I'm over the moon at finally having a real piece of wartime history in the house, let alone another Nihonto If there is no date mentioned, is it possible to work out what year it was made based on just the signature? I've noticed Emura has quite a few different signatures. And as for the koshirae... Well, it looks like almost every owner its ever had has painted it a different colour! Multicoloured tsuka aren't common are they? (purple/red/purple/red) Not sure what to do about the fuchi just falling off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoul Posted June 17 Author Report Share Posted June 17 The saya is a right mess too - it looks like it it has been painted brown, red, blue, and black - with the fittings also having most recently been painted silver? Even for a post-war job it feels like an unusual array of colours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoul Posted June 17 Author Report Share Posted June 17 (edited) Not even the tsuba remains unaffected - on one side some dirty grey/black coating, and on the other what looks like white trim: Only the seppa remain (mostly) unaffected - all with matching assembly numbers Edit: I just noticed the tsuka under the loose fuchi also has the same 11 assembly number - so I'm now pretty certain this is all one coherent koshirae (albeit in pretty bad condition) Edited June 17 by Ghoul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cisco-san Posted June 17 Report Share Posted June 17 3 hours ago, Ghoul said: Whhhoooop! When I saw the signature I thought for sure it would be Showato/factory made, just because there were only two characters... What does the mei literally translate as? Is it just "Emura" and nothing else? Most importantly, does this mean it's a 100% Nihonto, and would be able to be registered, polished, shinsha etc in Japan if ever needed? Hello, nice find!! You can of course send it to Japan for polishing, new Shirasaya, Shinsa..., but might cost a lot of money. But you can try to contact Mike Hickman from UK. I am sure he can advise... Concerning Emura, see also http://www.japaneses...dindex.com/emura.htm 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted June 17 Report Share Posted June 17 Dang @Brian, you called it right! I want to ask how you knew, but you'd probably say a bunch of nihonto jargon that I wouldn't understand. That blows my mind! As to date, I don't know of a way to even guess. WWII is likely as close a range as you're going to get. The fittings aren't Type 94, which would give you an early war range, so after 1938 as they are Type 98 fittings is the best I could do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted June 17 Report Share Posted June 17 Bruce, that hamon pattern closer to the machi is just fairly distinctive for Nagamitsu and Emura. Not to say there aren't many other smiths out there similar, but it's a good clue. As you mentioned, hard to say when exactly. But 1943/1944 would be a good guess. Emura had many apprentices/prisoners helping him work, and often signing, hence the wide range of signatures. But either way, it's considered his work, and a good find. Since you got it cheap, I would spring for a shirasaya and display it with the fitings in tsunagi to show its lineage. The mounts would cost too much to fix up. Oil, wipe, and a bit of careful uchiko, and the blade will look much better. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoul Posted June 17 Author Report Share Posted June 17 So 1938 to 1945, likely 1943/44 - I can work with that thank you! I found other examples of the two character signature too, not even from that long ago: https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/31267-emura/ The fact that this blade could have been partly or wholly made from slave labour is quite sobering - I didn't know that was a possibility with Nihonto, since I assumed it was a protected and revered profession... Interestingly the blade does feel much more dangerous than my other two Nihonto. It's certainly a lot sharper. And I'm not sure how, but the entire edge seems to be rather jagged. It's strange because I can't see any other evidence of cutting or heavy rust, but there are also two nicks to the back of the blade: After further investigation, I'm also not happy putting it back into its original koshirae - there are quite a lot of scratches that I think could be from the saya somehow, and worse, the saya is *very* mouldy: I do think your recommendation Klaus and Brian of a Shirasaya is the way to go - for now, it can live safely in this box (I've wrapped the kissaki and will store it only horizontally) - at least between periods of me studying/admiring it: Does the mould mean the saya and tsuka are lost causes? If so, there's a chance it might actually have been the last time it was drawn from and fitted with its original koshirae today 🥲 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan campbell Posted June 17 Report Share Posted June 17 Well I for one , would buy Emura,s for£300 all day long. Yes it’s seen better days , but overall it can be put into prestige condition in England for just over £1k .polished , handle rewrapped , saya refinished. I would invest in it. Emura and Nagamitsu are always on collectors radar . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan campbell Posted June 17 Report Share Posted June 17 Just noticed the latest pictures, when refurbishing the saya you can remove the liner and give it a tied up so there is nothing in there to offend a fresh polish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 9 hours ago, Ghoul said: made from slave labour is quite sobering Not really. They were just Japanese prisoners in a Japanese prison. I have never heard any interviews from prisoners during the war, but I would bet they’re nationalism and pride in serving their nation would’ve been quite a positive motivation for them to have been making these swords. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNSSHOGUN Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 Not sure where you got the notion there was slave labour involved. There was a period newspaper article on the Emura workshop, the impression one gets is a very dedicated and diligent operation from prisoners and warden. Far inferior work was produced by free men earning a wage! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 Indeed. It seems as though they were all very proud of the workshop, and I bet it was considered a status symbol to be able to work with him. They must have been very disciplined, capable and trusted prisoners to be allowed to work under him. Also, some of the areas of that sword are still in very good condition, with nice polish. Doesn't need much work at all, can be appreciated as is. Hamon is textbook Emura (school) 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoul Posted June 18 Author Report Share Posted June 18 Ah sorry, I seem to have muddied the waters a bit using the word slave - I meant unpaid labour by people that couldn't leave of their own free will 🙃 (although I am glad there is still pride in the work, this does help explain the quality of the swords made) The Emura is already teaching me much though - like I did not realize the mune could be a different, wider shape near the kissaki, as it isn't like that on my other Nihonto: Still much to study - and Uchiko is already enroute from https://www.bushidoj...ds.com/supplies.html so I hope to be able to remove at least some of the stains on the sword. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoul Posted June 18 Author Report Share Posted June 18 Honestly though, thank you all for your help with this - the only reason I was even able to identify this sword as one to bid on was from the things I've learnt from this forum - and I've learnt so much more just from this thread and reading up on all the loose ends. 😄 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John C Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 6 hours ago, Ghoul said: I meant unpaid labour by people that couldn't leave of their own free will George: Not trying to hijack the thread; just a side note - this still goes on in the US. Furniture used in government buildings and schools, not to mention the infamous license plate factory, are made in prisons. Inmates would kill (couldn't resist the pun) to get a job in the factory to escape the boredom of prison life. John C. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cisco-san Posted June 18 Report Share Posted June 18 7 hours ago, Ghoul said: Honestly though, thank you all for your help with this - the only reason I was even able to identify this sword as one to bid on was from the things I've learnt from this forum - and I've learnt so much more just from this thread and reading up on all the loose ends. 😄 learning just started.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoul Posted June 29 Author Report Share Posted June 29 I've been working on trying to clean the koshirae a bit, because I can't really just leave it all moldy like it is, even if I'm still not sure it can be used for the Emura... So far I have been able to remove the wooden liner from the saya, split it open, clean it, and then glue it all back with rice glue. Whilst I've been working on this though, I found these markings on the wood: Are these assembly marks? One vertical one diagonal line (maybe 11?). I have seen similar notches on the nakago in some posts here, but not sure if that applies to the saya as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John C Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 George: I think the marks are most likely just errand file or chisel marks. The ones I have seen, albeit that's a very limited sample, have been kanji or western numbers written fairly plainly in pencil. And the number would match the stamped or written numbers on the tang or other parts. Below is one from one of my swords that matches the stamped numbers on the fittings. John C. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiipu Posted June 29 Report Share Posted June 29 2 hours ago, Ghoul said: Are these assembly marks? One vertical one diagonal line (maybe 11?). Yes, sometimes the Japanese used a variant form of Roman numerals. Yours is marked as 11. I think Bruce has a section on this in his stamp monograph. Stamps of the Japanese Sword 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoul Posted June 29 Author Report Share Posted June 29 Thanks both! I know it doesn't look like much John, but those two are the only errant chisel marks on the whole thing, and they do stand out more in person than in the picture. Also Thomas thanks, that link is super helpful, I hadn't seen it before: My marks aren't an xi though, more like a /i or \i depending on which way it is read. Not sure if that completely rules out it being 11 like the seppa and tsuba are marked? It really would be great if I could link the saya lining to the other fittings. These aren't the only other mystery markings on the swords though. There are also a further two/three marks on the tsuba (that is stamped 11 on the other side as shown in a previous picture): And on one of the seppa, this kanji?: And although I don't think it is related to the fitting marks, I think there could be a very small stamp of some kind on the nakago: If anyone has any thoughts as to those too, that would be awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Pennington Posted June 30 Report Share Posted June 30 I was going to say the marks on the liner were random, too, but they do fit the marks on the tsuba. Can't comment on the seppa kanji. And the mark on the nakago looks to be pitting. I know - never say never with gunto - but I've never seen a stamp of any kind on an Emura blade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoul Posted July 3 Author Report Share Posted July 3 @Bruce Pennington Thanks for the above, and here's some more pictures of the suspect area of the nakago - I do think you're right though - it's more like two small pits that have some black rust or paint on them for some reason: I do wonder with regards to the seppa if it isn't a proper kanji, whether it could be a tally mark of some sort. I have also found another mark related to the above roman-ish numerals, this time on the inside of the koiguchi: With that I think we can safely say these slashes are not just down to chance. It is fun how many counting systems seem to be in use at the same time with these swords. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoul Posted July 10 Author Report Share Posted July 10 Since receiving the sword, I think I've spent almost every evening doing at least some piece of work on the Emura, mostly trying to clean out the darned mould, and it became increasingly obvious that the black paint wasn't meant to be there, nor most of the other colours for that matter - it was applied really thickly to both the saya and the tsuka wrap, often with large drips, and covering other fittings. It was a real mess - and whilst cleaning the mould from everywhere I could, I realised the original gunto green was still under the fittings on the saya: So long story short (unless you guys want to see the stage by stage saya photos?), this is what she looks like now: I know it is not a perfect job, that some of the colours still aren't right, and it is still a battered piece that has been messed around with (not like many of the other awesome swords I see in the other threads!). However, it is obvious now that someone decided they didn't like the old rust damage (which is genuinely black with age) hence all the paint, but I know I much prefer the more honest look. I also learnt from the auction house that it came from a deceased estate, so I won't hold its current condition against the previous owner too harshly - after all, I've definitely made at least a few mistakes with the cleaning - but I am hoping it seems slightly less of a Frankenstein now P.S. Yes, the ito wrap is still a mess - I can only take off the top level of black paint for fear of bleaching the material - and try as I might I can't remove the red/purple paint on the rayskin with the wrap still there, so I guess it has to stay. I'm currently hoping that with many hands and many years one day the remaining black paint will wear through quite well. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smee78 Posted July 13 Report Share Posted July 13 It looks like it has cleaned up pretty well from its previous condition. Sometimes a gamble pays off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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