2nd of 5 Swords. Any help on attribution, age, etc. would be appreciated.

[Lookin4answers]

Well, here’s my number 2 of the 5 samurai swords that have been in my family’s or my personal possession for the last 50 years. I am interested in learning as much as I can about each of these swords.

This sword has experienced what I believe to be a history of sword to sword combat in the past as evidenced by some of the marks and nicks on the blade. There are also a number of dulled areas on the sharp edge and rough areas in the polish, especially near the tip. I have included as many of the “specs” for the sword as I can ascertain based upon my novice level of knowledge and ability arising mostly from the information gleaned from a few select sites. Note that the pictures of the boshi on this sword are again less than ideal, as there are scratches making it very difficult to capture the details.

 

The sword is a Shinogi-zukuri Katana, based upon a total length of 85.4 cm. The Nagasa length is 67.6cm.

 

The Kasane (Motokasane measured at Mune) is 5.5mm in thickness and the Kasane (Motokasane measured at the Shinogi) is also 5.5mm.

 

The Mihaba measures 2.85cm. The Sakihaba measures 2.2cm. Is this considered a mild or moderate taper for this length of sword?

 

There are 2 Mekugiana.

 

The Hada appears to be Itame mixed with some Mokume in the Ji (there are a few irregular burls present, but hard to capture), and Masame in the Shinogi-ji.

 

Sori=1.3 cm. Toriizori form.

 

Appears to me to be Chu-Kissaki. Is this correct? It is about 4cm long.

 

Hikushi Mune.

 

The Hamon appears to me to be Suguha. It is not bright but more grey, clouded and somewhat subdued. It is a bit narrower near the Nakago end and gets just a bit wider towards the Kissaki. There also appear to be a number of dark streaks in the Hamon that I am unfamiliar with and can’t seem to really identify and in one section the Hamon seems to split. The photo doesn’t do it justice, but could it be kuichigai-ba? There also appears to be a particularly dark streak in the Hamon in one area.

 

The Habuchi is a narrow line of Nioi seeming kind of “soft” in appearance.

 

The Boshi appears to have almost a mottled flame appearance that is very difficult to capture in pictures. It appears to be Kaen, or Nie-kuzure.

 

The Nakago length is 18cm and appears to be Suriage. It seems that the Kiri Yasurime start at some distance below the Hamachi, and the sword surface is suspiciously smooth with no file marks for about 5cm below the Hamachi. The Hamon also seems to run into the Nakago a considerable distance. The bottom and top edges of the Nakago in this 5cm section seem to be shinier in places compared to the rest of the Nakago. Could someone confirm or at least speculate about my suspicion that this sword has been shortened?

 

The sword is Mumei

 

The polish in general is fairly bright.

 

Sadly, the Ito on the Tsuka are gone, leaving only the Same with an interesting white tear drop pattern on it centered around some exceptionally large bumps that appear cruciform. The Same actually seems much coarser than I have seen on other Tsuka. Only 1 Menuki remains, but it is a very nice well worn gold Temple Dog. The Fuchi and Kashira are decorated with a cherry blossom pattern

The Tsuba is signed. Could someone please interpret the writing for me?

 

I would be interested to know when this sword was made, and in what region or school. Any other details regarding the defining features would be appreciated as well. At this point I don’t know if this is an older sword that has been shortened, and so many of the other features seem to be found in numerous schools and eras that they leave me confused. Please forgive my ignorance. 

 

Thanks for any insight you can provide on this sword. I appreciate the enormous body of knowledge this site possesses and the willingness to help educate.

 

 f

[Nihonto student]

Hello Hunter,

 

I'm happy to see your second blade, here I could be completely off track, curious to see other opinions: O kissaki (We are borderline between O Kissaki and elongated chu kissaki) shallow sori and kasane so thin make me think at first glance of a blade from the Nambokucho period but considering the machiokuri with the position of the ana it makes me think that the nagasa was originally around 73 - 74cm which is a bit short for the average of that period therefore also looking at the patina of the nakago I would be more oriented towards Momoyama period where a revival of  Nambokucho sugata began in a smaller version... regarding the school I would stick with Mino, masame/masame running doesn't seem so clear to me for a call on Yamato, but I'm not very well versed in the Yamato tradition so as I have said I might be completely off track.

 

Regards,

 

Giordy

 

[Lookin4answers]

8 hours ago, Nihonto student said:

Hello Hunter,

 

I'm happy to see your second blade, here I could be completely off track, curious to see other opinions: O kissaki (We are borderline between O Kissaki and elongated chu kissaki) shallow sori and kasane so thin make me think at first glance of a blade from the Nambokucho period but considering the machiokuri with the position of the ana it makes me think that the nagasa was originally around 73 - 74cm which is a bit short for the average of that period therefore also looking at the patina of the nakago I would be more oriented towards Momoyama period where a revival of  Nambokucho sugata began in a smaller version... regarding the school I would stick with Mino, masame/masame running doesn't seem so clear to me for a call on Yamato, but I'm not very well versed in the Yamato tradition so as I have said I might be completely off track. 

 

Regards,

 

Giordy

 

Thank you Giordy, I really appreciate your taking the time to read my post and respond. This one is a real challenge for me as a very green novice due to the wide range of features and possibilities.

You said "masame/masame running doesn't seem so clear to me for a call on Yamato". I just wanted to be sure that I was clear on the details. I believe the Hada is Itame with some Mokume in the Ji (based upon a few scattered loose burls), and Masame in the Shinogi-Ji. Don't know if this was clear or not and whether it would have any bearing on your opinion.

Also, does my description of the Habuchi and Hamon seem to be accurate (subject to the less than great quality of the pictures)?

Do you think my description of the Boshi is correct?

Is my description of the features in the Hamon sufficient?

I'm really trying to provide as much accurate detail about the blade as possible. Is there any additional information I could provide? I still have 3 more swords I would like to submit and want to make it easy for others as well as yourself. Again, many thanks for your generous contribution of time and attention.

 

Regards,

Hunter 

[SteveM]

Hello Hunter - -the tsuba says 彦根住宗典作 (Hikone-jū Sōten saku - made by Sōten, resident of Hikone). 

Think of this as a shop name, rather than an individual artist's name. The Sōten school produced a lot of tsuba, and then other people started copying them, and it just kind of ended up as a much devalued brand name. 

[Lookin4answers]

2 hours ago, SteveM said:

Hello Hunter - -the tsuba says 彦根住宗典作 (Hikone-jū Sōten saku - made by Sōten, resident of Hikone). 

Think of this as a shop name, rather than an individual artist's name. The Sōten school produced a lot of tsuba, and then other people started copying them, and it just kind of ended up as a much devalued brand name. 

Thank you Steve. I wasn't having much luck trying to decipher the signature - I got the Saku, but couldn't arrive at the other characters. I appreciate your assistance.

 

Hunter

[ROKUJURO]

Hunter,

I cannot tell you much about your blade, but the TSUBA does not look genuine to me. It is probably a cast copy.

The TSUKA seems to have suffered an amateur "renovation" - not Japanese in my opinion. 

[Lookin4answers]

1 hour ago, ROKUJURO said:

Hunter,

I cannot tell you much about your blade, but the TSUBA does not look genuine to me. It is probably a cast copy.

The TSUKA seems to have suffered an amateur "renovation" - not Japanese in my opinion. 

Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree in regard to the Tsuba, at least to any question of it being some sort of contemporary reproduction. I have personal knowledge of the provenance of this sword since it was brought from Japan immediately after the war. The Tsuba has been on this sword since it was taken from Japan immediately after the war. There is no evidence of cast marks or other features consistent with it being a cast product. I will grant that someone could have changed the Tsuba in the immediate post war period when the status of the swords was still up in the air, but that seems to be most unlikely.  

In regard to the Tsuka, it is in the same state as it was when it left Japan. It fits the Nakago well. No one in possession of the sword since the end of the war has made any alteration to the sword itself or Tsuka, and it would seem very unlikely that the original Japanese owners would have made any changes. The Ito wrappings are gone, but the Kashira has the openings for the wrappings so it seems that it had a conventional configuration originally. One of the Menuki is gone, but the remaining piece seems to be nicely executed and tested at 12K gold. It is worn, however at this point if it is plated or gilt it has yet to have worn through to a base metal. 

 

Regards,

Hunter

[John C]

1 hour ago, Lookin4answers said:

Tsuba, at least to any question of it being some sort of contemporary reproduction. I have personal knowledge of the provenance of this sword since it was brought from Japan immediately after the war. The Tsuba has been on this sword since it was taken from Japan immediately after the war. There is no evidence of cast marks or other features consistent with it being a cast product.

Hmmm..

Could just be the lighting, however it looks as if there is some casting flash still present. And to be fair, "modern" repro could mean any time in the 20th century. Not saying the baby is ugly, just that it could have some "recent" parts.

[Lookin4answers]

1 hour ago, John C said:

Hmmm..

Could just be the lighting, however it looks as if there is some casting flash still present. And to be fair, "modern" repro could mean any time in the 20th century. Not saying the baby is ugly, just that it could have some "recent" parts.

I can buy it. I can see something that looks like it might be casting flash on very close examination in some of the smaller openings. The places you indicated are mostly just bad photography and some lighter colored dirt inside the opening. However, while it looks like they cleaned the Tsuba up really well in the larger openings, they missed or ignored some of the tight spaces. My hat's off to you and Rokojuro for the close examination. Next time I'll use my magnifying glass!

 

Regards,

Hunter

[Nihonto student]

16 hours ago, Lookin4answers said:

Thank you Giordy, I really appreciate your taking the time to read my post and respond. This one is a real challenge for me as a very green novice due to the wide range of features and possibilities.

You said "masame/masame running doesn't seem so clear to me for a call on Yamato". I just wanted to be sure that I was clear on the details. I believe the Hada is Itame with some Mokume in the Ji (based upon a few scattered loose burls), and Masame in the Shinogi-Ji. Don't know if this was clear or not and whether it would have any bearing on your opinion.

Also, does my description of the Habuchi and Hamon seem to be accurate (subject to the less than great quality of the pictures)?

Do you think my description of the Boshi is correct?

Is my description of the features in the Hamon sufficient?

I'm really trying to provide as much accurate detail about the blade as possible. Is there any additional information I could provide? I still have 3 more swords I would like to submit and want to make it easy for others as well as yourself. Again, many thanks for your generous contribution of time and attention.

 

Regards,

Hunter 

By running masame we mean when the texture is composed of streaks that tend to be wavy instead of being perfectly straight
(Forgive me for the simplistic definition).

 

 

in the shinogi ji I see both pure Masame and running masame, in the hira ji mostly itame, with running masame and some Mokume formations (So I agree with your reading).
Masame/running masame in the shinogi ji and itame/masame/mokume in the hira ji reflects Mino's style, (Also the hada in general looks a bit rought and Mino is not famous for magnificent jigane). Yamato generally = masame /running masame or Masame/itame mix but the texture tends to be homogeneous in both shinogi ji and hira ji and the masame or running masame tends to be consistent even when mixed with itame.
Regarding the Hamon, suguha is common in all periods, schools and traditions, if we talk about the Koto period, Yamashiro and Yamato are the most famous for suguha.
Consider that Mino tradition is essentially a mix between Yamato and Soshu tradition.
My evaluation is therefore based on the fact that having a different texture between shinogiji and hira ji and the fact that the masame is not so prominent in its entirety, makes me lean towards Mino rather than Yamato.

 

PS: for the mune the construction form is indicated first, in this case is Iori mune (Roof) hikushi refers to the height of the "roof" we can also define it as gentle oroshi.
It's difficult for me to say  about Boshi from the photos, I would say sugu ko maru but given the lack of definition it could be nie kuzure.

 

BTW just my opinion Hunter, there are much more knowledgeable people than me here.

 

Regards,

 

Giordy

[ROKUJURO]

Hunter,

have a close look at your TSUBA. Where are the hands, legs and the face of the person on the right? There should be soft metal inserts that are missing now. This TSUBA design can be found online in dozens (at least), and when I said it might be cast, that could well have been done in MEJI times. So not a "new" TSUBA, but one probably made to deceive the first tourists who visited Japan at the end of the 19th century, hunting for souvenirs.

The TSUKA has wrong shape in my eyes. The TSUKA-ITO (if there ever was one; I don't see the usual "shadows" of it on the SAME) would not have gone through the openings of the KASHIRA as they are not continued through the wood of the TSUKA. The bleached (or ground) 'flame-shaped' area on the SAME is a typical thing of the late 20th century. Pearl-ray hides were fashioned in that manner for decorative use on ladies' handbags, shoes, belts, and similar. You will not find it on SAMURAI items.

I am not at all interested in saying negative things about your sword, but when you present photos of it here for comments, you should be prepared to receive our genuine opinions. Holding the sword in hand may of course result in different judgements. 

[Lookin4answers]

On 5/31/2024 at 1:30 AM, Nihonto student said:

By running masame we mean when the texture is composed of streaks that tend to be wavy instead of being perfectly straight
(Forgive me for the simplistic definition).

 

 

in the shinogi ji I see both pure Masame and running masame, in the hira ji mostly itame, with running masame and some Mokume formations (So I agree with your reading).
Masame/running masame in the shinogi ji and itame/masame/mokume in the hira ji reflects Mino's style, (Also the hada in general looks a bit rought and Mino is not famous for magnificent jigane). Yamato generally = masame /running masame or Masame/itame mix but the texture tends to be homogeneous in both shinogi ji and hira ji and the masame or running masame tends to be consistent even when mixed with itame.
Regarding the Hamon, suguha is common in all periods, schools and traditions, if we talk about the Koto period, Yamashiro and Yamato are the most famous for suguha.
Consider that Mino tradition is essentially a mix between Yamato and Soshu tradition.
My evaluation is therefore based on the fact that having a different texture between shinogiji and hira ji and the fact that the masame is not so prominent in its entirety, makes me lean towards Mino rather than Yamato.

 

PS: for the mune the construction form is indicated first, in this case is Iori mune (Roof) hikushi refers to the height of the "roof" we can also define it as gentle oroshi.
It's difficult for me to say  about Boshi from the photos, I would say sugu ko maru but given the lack of definition it could be nie kuzure.

 

BTW just my opinion Hunter, there are much more knowledgeable people than me here.

 

Regards,

 

Giordy

Giordy, thanks taking the time for the more comprehensive response. This kind of detailed information delivered in a coherent fashion is most valuable in my continuing education regarding Nihonto. There's so much to learn that it's like trying to drink from a fire hose. That being said, do you have any opinion about the "dark streaks" present in the Hamon? 

 

Many thanks,

Hunter 

[Lookin4answers]

5 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

Hunter,

have a close look at your TSUBA. Where are the hands, legs and the face of the person on the right? There should be soft metal inserts that are missing now. This TSUBA design can be found online in dozens (at least), and when I said it might be cast, that could well have been done in MEJI times. So not a "new" TSUBA, but one probably made to deceive the first tourists who visited Japan at the end of the 19th century, hunting for souvenirs.

The TSUKA has wrong shape in my eyes. The TSUKA-ITO (if there ever was one; I don't see the usual "shadows" of it on the SAME) would not have gone through the openings of the KASHIRA as they are not continued through the wood of the TSUKA. The bleached (or ground) 'flame-shaped' area on the SAME is a typical thing of the late 20th century. Pearl-ray hides were fashioned in that manner for decorative use on ladies' handbags, shoes, belts, and similar. You will not find it on SAMURAI items.

I am not at all interested in saying negative things about your sword, but when you present photos of it here for comments, you should be prepared to receive our genuine opinions. Holding the sword in hand may of course result in different judgements.

Rokojuro,

I forget that "modern" can have an entirely different meaning in the context to these swords. The things you point out on the Tsuba are evident. I accept and appreciate any constructive comments received from knowledgeable sources here.  Frankly, the details regarding the Tsuka and Tsuba were provided in case they offered some additional contextual information regarding the sword itself. I'm much more interested in learning what I'm seeing in the sword and how to integrate it into a more comprehensive general understanding.

 

Regards,

Hunter