NBTHK Certificate Steps

[Nihonto student]

Dear members,

 

I would like to ask if the NBTHK evaluation steps have remained the same since 1982 (New system) or if there have been changes over the years.

Today a blade at its first evaluation can receive Hozon or Tokubetsu Hozon but has it always been like this? Or were there years in which the steps were separate, so to obtain Tokubetsu the blade had to already have Hozon?

 

Thank you for kind help

 

Giordy

[Grey Doffin]

I think it has always been Hozon first. Grey

[Nihonto student]

Thanks Grey, forgive me perhaps I expressed myself badly... I was referring to the shinsa sessions necessary to obtain the certificate, today Hozon and Tokubetsu hozon are issued in the same session depending on whether or not the blade meets the necessary requirements for Tokubetsu, I wonder whether it has always been like this since 1982 or there was a period in which Hozon and Tokubetsu Hozon were two distinct sessions.

 

Giordy

[Mark]

it has always been similar. you could submit for just Hozon or request both if it qualified (those standards have a changed a little over he years) there are written guidelines....... the one big change is that in the past you could get Hozon then submit for Juyo, now it has to first get TH before Juyo shinsa

 

[Nihonto student]

23 minutes ago, Mark said:

it has always been similar. you could submit for just Hozon or request both if it qualified (those standards have a changed a little over he years) there are written guidelines....... the one big change is that in the past you could get Hozon then submit for Juyo, now it has to first get TH before Juyo shinsa

 

Thank you very much Mark, it would be interesting to know in which year the change occurred, I'll explain my point of view to understand if my intuition is correct: if it was possible to request shinsa for Juyo having only Hozon this automatically means for me that the Tokubetsu was more important than the Hozon "Only on paper" because in the end it made little sense to ask for shinsa also for Tokubetsu (And maybe pay more?) when the basic Hozon certification was enough to access the next level...

[paulb]

I think the change happened about  in 2011. A dealer I was buying from was caught off guard by the change and it meant I could buy a blade whi h he originally planned to submit for higher papers

[Nihonto student]

35 minutes ago, paulb said:

I think the change happened about  in 2011. A dealer I was buying from was caught off guard by the change and it meant I could buy a blade whi h he originally planned to submit for higher papers

Thank you for sharing your experience Paul, an experience that fits perfectly with the idea that I wanted to bring to attention and that is that if we are faced with a blade with a Hozon certificate issued before 2011 (If the year is correct) we do not think by default that the blade fail Tokubetsu, but there may be cases in which the blade was simply sold before a second evaluation step ,perhaps scheduled as in your case.

[paulb]

There is also another possibility. It was certainly true in the past that some dealers only submitted for hozon papers to authenticate the mei. Once that was done and because they believed they understood the quality of what they had, they saw no benefit in resubmitting for tokubetsu Hozon. The enthusiasm for TH has grown significantly in recent years but particularly amongst non Japanese collectors 

[Nihonto student]

Paul you have best completed my perception, my paranoia began about three months ago when I saw a Mutsu no Kami Tadayoshi wakizashi, the blade had Hozon I don't remember if 2007 or 2008, although absolutely plausible (To me the blade does not it looked at all bad even if in an old polish and with some scratches) I thought it was strange that such a name received only Hozon (I don't want to generalize obviously it's the blade that is evaluated but I think the name still has a certain weight) therefore there could have been other implications behind this assessment.

[Mark]

Paul is accurate.   But unless you know the owner at the time it was papered you will not know the motivation.  It may be that the owner just wanted Hozon, weather to confirm a mei or get an attribution. Or it may have been submitted for both and pass Hozon but rejected for TH.  Sometimes an owner would get Hozon, submit for Juyo and if that failed they would follow up with TH, (thinking if it passed Juyo they saved the TH fee).  You can try and make assumptions but no way to know for sure unless you can ask the person who did it (and if they are honest with the answer).  I am happy with Hozon or TH, it does not make a big difference to me

[Nihonto student]

9 hours ago, Mark said:

Paul is accurate.   But unless you know the owner at the time it was papered you will not know the motivation.  It may be that the owner just wanted Hozon, weather to confirm a mei or get an attribution. Or it may have been submitted for both and pass Hozon but rejected for TH.  Sometimes an owner would get Hozon, submit for Juyo and if that failed they would follow up with TH, (thinking if it passed Juyo they saved the TH fee).  You can try and make assumptions but no way to know for sure unless you can ask the person who did it (and if they are honest with the answer).  I am happy with Hozon or TH, it does not make a big difference to me

For me too Hozon or TH it makes no difference Mark, don't get me wrong, no certainty of any kind... I simply wanted to highlight that  behind the certificates before 2011 there can be more variables than a fresh one.

 

All the best,

Giordy