SAYA CONVERSIONS WHEN SWITCHING FROM TACHI TO KATANA

[Ashimoto]

Hi, I was recently looking at a katana that the seller says started life as a Tachi, according to what can be made out on the tang. The saya appeared to me to be a little too long to fit the blade's current length perfectly, and I am wondering whether it is the original saya, the blade having been shortened (there are three mekugi ana, possibly suggesting this). I don't know how likely this is - would it have been the custom to have a new saya made if a blade was shortened? Was it usual, or at least heard of, to retain  the original sayas on converted (including shortened) blades simply by removing the ashi kanomono? There was what looks like a repair to a small oblong shaped piece of the lacquer on the opposite side of the kurigata  - could that be disguising the remnants of the ashi kanomono fittings? Tsuba to tip, the blade length is 28 inches, whereas the saya measures 31 inches; if that's the original saya, it would suggest to me that the blade has been shortened by three inches(??) Reckoned to be around 500 years old. Apart from the length the saya looked a good fit.

 

Without further information, do members have any thoughts on this please?

 

 

 

[2devnul]

500 years old original wooden Saya? Good luck with that

 

[Matsunoki]

When a sword is shortened its geometry is often changed, sometimes very substantially…..the sori, haba, niku, kasane  etc will all be different. A new habaki would usually be required. It would then be unlikely to fit the old saya unless the saya was also shortened and considerably re-worked. 
A 3” difference between blade and saya is not that unusual

[Alex A]

My first thoughts are that saya are always longer than blades and 3" does not sound out of the ordinary.

 

Got a wak that has a saya 5.5" longer, yet it was made for the wak.

[PNSSHOGUN]

59 minutes ago, 2devnul said:

500 years old original wooden Saya? Good luck with that

 

There are still Koshirae extant from before the Muromachi period. Not saying this is the case here, but it is well within the realms of possibility.

[Ashimoto]

On 5/18/2024 at 1:48 PM, Matsunoki said:

When a sword is shortened its geometry is often changed, sometimes very substantially…..the sori, haba, niku, kasane  etc will all be different. A new habaki would usually be required. It would then be unlikely to fit the old saya unless the saya was also shortened and considerably re-worked. 
A 3” difference between blade and saya is not that unusual

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Ashimoto]

On 5/18/2024 at 1:40 PM, 2devnul said:

500 years old original wooden Saya? Good luck with that

 

Good point.