FUJIWARA RAI KUNIFUSA, request details on this sword smith

[steve oakley]

Hi

 

Does anyone know anything about a sword smith by the name of FUJIWARA RAI KUNIFUSA.

Just after when he was making swords and the quality of his blades?

 

Regards

Steve O

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Steve,

Hawleys has a Rai Kunifusa from 1449 but It seems unlikely that a Rai School smith would have used Fujiwara in his mei. No record in my Index of a Fujiwara Rai Kunifusa (or of Rai Kunifusa for that matter).

Grey

[John A Stuart]

If you leave off the Rai there were a few Kunifusa that used Fujiwara in the Uda school. John

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

The only Kunifusa using Fujiwara that i have found are Shinto smiths from Iyo province (seems related with the Bungo Takada school).

[steve oakley]

Hi

 

From other discussions it sounds as if it is just pre WW2.

 

 

 

regards

Steve O

[george trotter]

Hi Steve,

This? Rai Kunifusa appears from time to time...he is WWII period. Those I have seen were in Gunto mounts. There is a mei of his in the Richard Fuller "Oshigata Book". I have held this sword and it is definitely handmade, appears to be nihonto gendaito. It says made from Tottori sand iron and old iron. He often had flamboyant characteristics. Of the few I have seen, one was "Tottori sand iron". One was called "Flying Dragon" and one had a tang shaped like the Japanese paper prayer one sees hanging on Shinto shrines, but I can't recall the mei. This one you show may be him, although I have not seen the "Fujiwara" before.

Regards,

George Trotter.

[reinhard]

This blade pretends to be named "...kubi giri maru" ("...little head cutter"). By doing so, it is in accordance with other sick and disgusting trash related to WW II memorabilia, not to mention their replicas. In this particular case I'm sure it's a fake.

 

Reminder: Some people tend to believe ShinGunTo was an extension of Samurai culture into 20th century. This is bullsh... Japan went to war as a hi-tec nation and GunTo were far from any real purpose in warfare except killing POW's.

 

reinhard

[Guido]

It says "Shanghai Kubigiri-maru", to be precise. And since both the "Mei" and this inscription are obviously done by the same hand - and thus added later for enhanced "appeal" - we now know that the Mei itself is Gimei. That's the good news. The sad (or rather sickening) news: the person who did the inscription found it appropriate to imply that this sword was used to behead Chinese in Shanghai; I'm pretty sure some buyers (who think the inscription is genuine) will pay a premium for the knowledge that their new sword was used to chop off some heads.

[Austo1]

The above translation for the Kanefusa reads correct. I am a former owner of the gendaito in question and have also seen another gendaito signed by the same smith however with a different slogan. Fuller and Gregory also list this smith. One must remember that showa period smiths often signed with different names. I personally don't believe that this sword can be disgarded as a fake.

Doug Austin

[Mark Green]

I have many pictures of Japanese troops chopping off the heads of Chinese. In Shanghai no less. As well as people being used for target practice, bayonet practice, and many other horrors that the Japanese troops stationed there could think up.

My Father was there, in person, taking these pictures. the Japanese troops seemed proud of their actions. I think it was in 39.

My Dad hated the Japanese as a people till the day he died. He lost 3 best friends on the Batan death march. Plus what he saw in China.

So why wouldn't some young Japanese officer have something like that inscribed on his sword. He was likely very proud of every Chinese man, woman, or child he made leave this world.

I have heard that the Samurai of old, were not much different when they went to places like Korea.

War is hell, that is why we should try to avoid it.

And the reason very few people got upset when we dropped nukes on Japan.

Sad, but true.

Mark G

[steve oakley]

Hi all

 

I merely raise the issue of the smith and whether he can be traced and by no means wish to start angst among forum members about the mei.

 

regards

Steve O

[Guido]

I merely raise the issue of the smith and whether he can be traced and by no means wish to start angst among forum members about the mei. We know that there are swords used in cutting tests and know what they represent.

It looks like I failed to express myself clearly; let me give it another try:

 

- The signature doesn't match known examples.

- The signature and the additional inscription are done by the same hand and most probably at the same time.

- A sword may get named *after* a certain feat was achieved with/by it, not *before*.

- If both the Mei and nickname were chiseled at the same time/by the same person, it is reasonable to assume that it wasn't done by the original smith (after all, how could he have known about it later being used in Shanghai for decapitation when he signed it?)

- Testing swords on bodies of executed criminals in the Edo period can't be compared to war atrocities. Anyhow, if the inscription would be genuine, it's kind of a macabre, but still legitimate part of its history. But unlike Saidan-mei, if it's added later to raise the "value" it's rather sick (at least IMO) - there are still a lot of people around here in China who's relatives were killed by Japanese soldiers who wanted to tests their swords on live people, soldiers and civilians alike. We're not talking about some nameless criminal - who was already dead anyhow - a couple of centuries ago...

[jlawson]

I have had several of these and I dont think this mei was saying that it was a "head cutter" and applied later. I think the blade was actually named this when forged, as all other blades I have seen of his. Take a look at Fuller and Gregory and you will find 2 other examples that are "named" blades. In fact all of the ones I have owned and ever seen by this smith have been named.

[Mark Green]

Seems like you have it spot on James.

Mark G

[Brian]

Just a caution against going too much into the war and attrocities and other stuff not related to Nihonto or the spirit of this site.

I don't want debates about what they were used for and who did what to whom. There are plenty of other forums for that.

The main issue here appears to be whether or not the inscription is gimei or not. Seems everyone agrees the sword itself is genuine and not a fake (to clarify some confusion)

Guido has extensive experience with these kinds of swords, and if he thinks it is unlikely an inscription such as this one would have been done originally, then I am inclined to go with that opinion too. However that assumes that it was done at the same time, and not slightly later if/when the sword was returned to the same smith for an inscription. I don't know what to think about this one.

George and others have shown us who the smith should be. The rest is always up for debate. What we won't do..is debate whether the inscription makes this horrible militaria or a valuable reminder of history. Living in SA has taught me that you don't have to like your past to study it, or show an interest. Anyways..enough of that.

I have moved this to the WW2 section as I believe it belongs here.

 

Brian

[Guido]

Guido has extensive experience with these kinds of swords, ...

Actually I don't - WWII swords are certainly not my field of interest (I usually click the "mark forum read" button on top of the Guntô forum, and only saw this topic because it was originally in the Nihontô section). I do, however, have an extensive library that includes Guntô and Gendaitô reference material, and wasn't able to match the signature. That, and the head-cutter nickname, lead me to the conclusion that the entire inscription isn't legit.

 

BUT: I could be totally off, of course, and there indeed was this smith who signed awkwardly and in different styles and combinations of characters, and who named swords before sending them off to his customers ("hey, this sword is named "Beijing Backdoor Breaker", great for infiltrating the Chinese capitol if you ever happen to be there!"). I just don't think it makes sense, and find it more likely that someone did those inscriptions on unsigned swords after the war to make them more interesting to potential buyers.

 

In regard to war crimes: as a German I'm pretty much the last one on this board to point a finger at anyone. But if the Shanghai head-cutter inscription was added for the sole purpose of raising the value, I find that extremely tasteless. This has nothing to do with the present and future owners, or the seller of this sword, but the (alleged) faker. I also wonder what people on this board would think if we were not discussing something that happened between two Far East nations, but something closer to home. But this is indeed a discussion for another board, we're here to enjoy weapons detached from their historical context, aren't we?

 

Anyhow, I rest my case.