Need help finding a tameshigiri sword

[Ikko Ikki]

Hello NMB, I just made this account recently and am posting for the first time, but I have observed the forums from afar for some time.  I already know preservation is the objective here so I am looking for a nihonto that is both young (preferably post-WWII) and doesn't have any artistic value (no NBTHK/NTHK papers) to do tameshigiri with.  If I were to catastrophically mess up a cut, I don't want to ruin a historical/culturally important sword.  This will also be my first one, so I think having a gendaito with no significant value can be a good way to experience handling and caring for a nihonto.  I have already found a site called e-sword and another called samuraishokai, they both have swords that fit what I am looking for.  Can anyone tell me about these sites?  I saw in another thread that e-sword is a trusted seller.  It would also be great if someone could point to other sites that sell gendaito like the ones I'm looking for, the more options the better.  

 

https://e-nihontou.c.../list?category_id=21

https://www.samuraishokai.jp/index.html

 

Thank you,

Connor

[Brian]

Bet if you post in the wanted section, you'll easily find something at a decent price within the USA without having to import.

[Katsujinken]

Hi Connor,

 

I do not recommend using a traditionally made sword for your first cutting blade, as all tamahagane is easier to bend than modern steels. You will bend it, because everyone bends a sword at some point. Beyond that, traditionally made swords can vary widely in their feel and balance even when measurements appear the same. You really don’t want to spend thousands on a poorly balanced blade. 
 

If your budget is in shinsakuto range, then you can afford something like a sword from Evolution Blades. They are made in Korea (business is based in USA), and they make the best swords outside of Japan, fully customizable with high quality mounts, and nearly

impossible to bend or damage unless you mistreat them.  
 

You might find this article helpful: https://www.brooklyn...-to-buy-a-real-sword

 

If your mind is set on buying a shinsakuto, Brian’s advice is good, and those sites are also fine. Giheiya is another good one. 

[Ikko Ikki]

Hello Brian and Michael,

 

Thank you for your replies.  I should have clarified that I have many modern reproduction katana and lots of experience with cutting (I meant this will be my first tamahagane blade).  I, like everyone, will have a rare off-day but generally I'm very good at tameshigiri.  I will check out Giheiya and see what I can find in the wanted section.  

 

Thank you both,

Connor

[Toryu2020]

nipponto.co.jp

 

Meirin Sangyo also has custom shinsakuto for Iai and Battodo...

 

-t

[Katsujinken]

1 hour ago, Ikko Ikki said:

Hello Brian and Michael,

 

Thank you for your replies.  I should have clarified that I have many modern reproduction katana and lots of experience with cutting (I meant this will be my first tamahagane blade).  I, like everyone, will have a rare off-day but generally I'm very good at tameshigiri.  I will check out Giheiya and see what I can find in the wanted section.  

 

Thank you both,

Connor

Ah, okay, that’s good. Best of luck then!

 

Where and what style do you train?

[Mark S.]

I’ll follow up with what Michael just asked… What does your Sensei recommend?  

[2devnul]

Water bottles 🫣

[John C]

On 5/10/2024 at 1:45 AM, Ikko Ikki said:

if someone could point to other sites that sell gendaito

Conner:

If you are still looking, another affordable option can be found at this site. Japanese "style", hand forged and water quenched. You would need mounts.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/145776485768

 

John C.

[Cola]

Or get one of those paul chen, dragon king etc. swords mass produced somewhere in asia for playing around with. 

[jeremy]

On 5/15/2024 at 2:21 PM, John C said:

Conner:

If you are still looking, another affordable option can be found at this site. Japanese "style", hand forged and water quenched. You would need mounts.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/145776485768

 

John C.

Are these blades really nihonto? There's something odd about the nakago on these blades ?

[Brian]

It's not. He's giving all the clues without saying it.
Made elsewhere with a fake signature. Wallhanger or mess-around blade.

[John C]

1 hour ago, jeremy said:

Are these blades really nihonto?

My guess is no. But if you are going to practice cutting things, this is an affordable option without the risk of damaging a real nihonto.

 

John C.

[Toryu2020]

These are real nihonto made for your needs...

 

－現代刀匠による日本刀の製作、拵え・白鞘等の新調－　日本刀の通信販売　明倫産業株式会社 (nipponto.co.jp)

[jeremy]

17 hours ago, Brian said:

It's not. He's giving all the clues without saying it.
Made elsewhere with a fake signature. Wallhanger or mess-around blade.

A bit misleading calling it a gendaito though. He does have genuine nihonto on his eBay however for people who are looking for cheaper nihonto.

[John C]

7 hours ago, jeremy said:

A bit misleading calling it a gendaito though.

That's part of the Ebay game played by ALL sellers. Gendai-to just means "new sword" so technically it's correct. Trusted sellers who are frequently recommended also use terminology like "samurai" sword when describing a ww2 blade or "suicide" knife when describing a ww2 tanto. These too are inaccurate, however they are ubiquitous when trying to attract buyers as key search words. Ignore the verbiage and just look at the blade.

 

John C.

[2devnul]

I personally would perfer komonjo blade, hanwei or other for cutting. Reason is simple, blade gets damaged when you cut things. Even on tatami you will get srcaches, not to mention if you mess the cut and sword will bend. 

But if you want to use decent Shinsakuto (3k$ minimum?) then it's your call. 

[jeremy]

11 hours ago, John C said:

That's part of the Ebay game played by ALL sellers. Gendai-to just means "new sword" so technically it's correct. Trusted sellers who are frequently recommended also use terminology like "samurai" sword when describing a ww2 blade or "suicide" knife when describing a ww2 tanto. These too are inaccurate, however they are ubiquitous when trying to attract buyers as key search words. Ignore the verbiage and just look at the blade.

 

John C.

That's fair enough , when I see gendaito my mind thinks late 1800s to 1940s era blades made in Japan.  I must say the blades themselves look very impressive for non Japanese made, I bet a few people have been fooled into believing that they're buying a Japanese made sword with these pics and descriptions 

[tim89]

Random thought on komonjo.

I do find it strange that the blades are so cheap. 

The blades that are formal could be going from Japan to china first. I'm sure china buy blades from Japan in order to copy the blades. If they mass produce a replica then the price of the initial blade would probably not mean much. Then they turn them over to this guy.

I've heard mixed things, some fake some real. If he's selling mixed batches of real and fake it could also be used as a test how close the productis to the real thing. Anyways just a solution as to why it's so cheap even if it's real. 

 

Timothy  N.

[John C]

6 hours ago, tim89 said:

I do find it strange that the blades are so cheap

Not so strange if you look carefully at the pictures. He generally sells real Japanese swords (excluding the anything labeled as gendaito), however there usually will be something wrong (out of polish, kizu, or whatever). He leaves it up to the buyer to figure it out. Compare that with other sellers like our favorite "warrior simian" or "1947" and you'll see some really shady stuff.

Just my two cents.

John C.

 

[2devnul]

Exactly what John said. It is cheaper as the Nihonto swords are lower quality. Still, sometimes they are being sold around 1.5-2k$ where you could get something much better for this money. All Gendaito are made outside of Japan, just look at that Chinese type Hada and polish on these blades. Also all Koshirae he is adding is junk/replica. 

From time to time he drops something decent, but then the auction goes viral (like the last Kanesada I was biding for and which was sold for over 4k$).

Still, I bought cheaply 3 "Gendaito" from him for my colleagues that were looking for cutting swords which are more Nihonto then Hanwei. After Koshirae replacement they look pretty decent. They also cut nicely as the steel and blade geometry is good. 

 

Again, if one has enough money then he can buy any sword and mess around with it. Your call. Just keep in mind that sword gets damaged/scratched. Adding to that, I met 2 Iaido/Kenjutsu Sensei who did practice Tameshigiri. They both had dedicated (not a top notch) swords for that. Not even sure if these swords were Nihonto at all. Yes, a top Dan Sensei but he uses 'Hanwe/Komonjo' for this specific purpose. That tells you something. 

[tim89]

I grew up in Japan and I've trained in Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu  and Nakamura ryu while there. Currently I'm state side studying Mugai ryu and Toyama  Ryu. I've used the same dedicated sword since I was 15. I have others that I only use when preforming kata/waza  and others that are just for enjoyment/ love for history.  I'm actually in the process of moving back in a year to a year and a half.  

 

I got curious at what someone said  earlier about receiving papers from a blade that came from komonjo. so I was just thinking about what a possible reason the prices would be low. I did consider blades having flaws/ kizu. Anyways, I had gotten curious then looked at the sell with more detail yes John C. I agree as well. 

2devnul  im not sure what you mean by gendaito are all made outside of Japan. (respectfully)

 

Many of you made excellent suggestions on alternatives and gendaito. However, there are still some gendaito I would not use for cutting. 

In the end just find something that speaks to you. Also, listen to your Sensei and value his opinion. Good luck!

 

 

Timothy N.

[2devnul]

48 minutes ago, tim89 said:

2devnul  im not sure what you mean by gendaito are all made outside of Japan. (respectfully)

I was talking here about Komonjo offers/swords tagged as Gendaito. He sells genuine (also papered) Nihonto, but all of his swords described as Gendaito look like "Nihonto wanna be".  Here is an example:

https://www.ebay.com...c:g:eNMAAOSwFuZmT9zG

 

There are multiple topics on this forum related to Komonjo and story behind his dealership/shop. 

[tim89]

Oh sorry long day I only get to read bit and parts of comments at a time. Apologies 

Normally I just buy directly from Japan. Perhaps I'll pay a little more attention to what komonjo is putting out.

 

Timothy N.

[Samurai Art]

Hi Connor.
I am a member of Fudokan Battodo in London, England. Most Yudansha have purchased their shinken in Japan when they attend the International Taikai. However, a few have now been purchased from Jason at Evolution Blades. He is in the USA.  One word, awesome, these are made to cut Omote Tatami. They will not bend and are amazing. I have just ordered my second sword from them. Spec provided:

https://motoharablades.com/
 

-Steel type: SGT*****($2600)
-Blade geometry: Shinoji-zukuri 
-Edge geometry: Custom mat cutter geometry & measurements ****($200)
-Nagasa: 73cm ******* 
-Motohaba: 33mm
-Sakihaba : 28mm
-Motokasane: 6mm
-Sakikasane : 5mm
-Sori: 15mm- 18mm******
-Kissaki: O kissaki*****($100)
 
-Bohi******($150)

 
Koshirae
-Habaki design: Yujo

-Habaki material: Copper

-Tsuba design & material: Iron flower

 
-Saya color & finish: Half ray skin with black glossy finish ******($200)
 
 Tsuka
-Samegawa on tsuka core: Antique finish
-Fuchi/Kashihara design: Higo
 
-Menuki design: Ken
 
-Menuki position: Gyaku
-Fitting material: Silver****($250)
-Fitting finish: Antique finish
-Tsukamaki  material: Black Leather*****($60)
 
-Tsukamaki style: Hinari
-Tsuka shape: Imogota*******  tsuka thickness 20mm at middle of tsuka