Tanegashima Help

[DocVoltron]

Hey everyone, new member here. I've been reading through a lot of threads with great information about the various parts of the tanegashima as I have a few missing on mine. I was hoping someone could help me out with some of the markings on my new gun. I think some of the Kanji says "83" but with the Imperial Calendar, I'm not sure "which" '83 to translate to the Gregorian calendar. I can't really make out the other markings either and can't find anything on the mark on the side plate or the stock marking. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[DocVoltron]

Images are large so looks like I have to do one at a time.

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[Bugyotsuji]

Hi Thomas, good to see you with your nice clean easy-to-use example there. Generally most of the parts are there; the loss on an amaooi (rain guard) is not unusual.

 

The 八三 refers to No.83 in a gunsmith order. Often you can find the same number repeated elsewhere, e.g. in black brush ink inside the stock, etc. but these numbers help to keep the parts together during the manufacturing process. Unfortunately the Mei on your gun has been rubbed away, leaving the last character 胝 (?) of a name, plus the word 作 saku (made by). Although it is not dated, the general style for me points towards the end of the Edo Period, somewhere between 1820 and 1850, but that is an educated guess.

 

The gun is probably an army order, so it shows no particular geographical link or gunnery school affiliation. Without these it becomes harder to go through the lists and find the possible meanings of the marks you show on the gunstock 文 (?) and lockwork. A locksmith would have added that 工, 又 ,み(?) ヌ (?) stamp in the shinchu (brass). The lower corner cutaway on the lockplate is an interesting hint of something.

 

Can you get the inner diameter of the muzzle in cm? (Does the 'bisen' breech screw open easily?)

[DocVoltron]

1 hour ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Hi Thomas, good to see you with your nice clean easy-to-use example there. Generally most of the parts are there; the loss on an amaooi (rain guard) is not unusual.

 

The 八三 refers to No.83 in a gunsmith order. Often you can find the same number repeated elsewhere, e.g. in black brush ink inside the stock, etc. but these numbers help to keep the parts together during the manufacturing process. Unfortunately the Mei on your gun has been rubbed away, leaving the last character 胝 (?) of a name, plus the word 作 saku (made by). Although it is not dated, the general style for me points towards the end of the Edo Period, somewhere between 1820 and 1850, but that is an educated guess.

 

The gun is probably an army order, so it shows no particular geographical link or gunnery school affiliation. Without these it becomes harder to go through the lists and find the possible meanings of the marks you show on the gunstock 文 (?) and lockwork. A locksmith would have added that 工, 又 ,み(?) ヌ (?) stamp in the shinchu (brass). The lower corner cutaway on the lockplate is an interesting hint of something.

 

Can you get the inner diameter of the muzzle in cm? (Does the 'bisen' breech screw open easily?)

Thanks, Bugyotsuji! Very interesting info, thanks! Inner diameter of the bore is 1.34cm (0.528") the bisen was easy to open, but unfortunately that was mainly because it was snapped in two and I unthreaded the short end. I have a friend with a lathe willing to do the work so we're going to make a new screw to thread into the breech and match the original's tang.

 

Is that hole you are talking about the one in the mainspring

[Bugyotsuji]

Ah, thanks. That diameter gives a 3.5 Monme ~ 4 Monme ball, which tips this gun into the military range category (as opposed to small game or target shooting).

 

Sometimes the Bisen gets twisted and snapped in two when someone is trying to force one open. It's irritating to discover, but not the end of the world. Glad to you have someoe to drill it out. I am sure you are aware, but just make sure that the tip of the new breech screw does not go so far as to block the internal end of the vent passage.

 

You mention a 'hole'? I was referring not to the leaf spring, but to the butt end of the external side lock plate. They are most often squared off, but you get different regional or gunnery school shaped endings. Yours though unusually has the left lower corner cut diagonally. (I am wondering if your gun might not be from Kunitomo.)

[DocVoltron]

1 hour ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Ah, thanks. That diameter gives a 3.5 Monme ~ 4 Monme ball, which tips this gun into the military range category (as opposed to small game or target shooting).

 

Sometimes the Bisen gets twisted and snapped in two when someone is trying to force one open. It's irritating to discover, but not the end of the world. Glad to you have someoe to drill it out. I am sure you are aware, but just make sure that the tip of the new breech screw does not go so far as to block the internal end of the vent passage.

 

You mention a 'hole'? I was referring not to the leaf spring, but to the butt end of the external side lock plate. They are most often squared off, but you get different regional or gunnery school shaped endings. Yours though unusually has the left lower corner cut diagonally. (I am wondering if your gun might not be from Kunitomo.)

Oh I see, yes. Good advice about the flash hole. This is the "hole" I was referring to. Couldn't really cut up with it's use as the sear hole is larger and would probably be drilled from the other side. The good news is I have the piece of bisen that I can dimension. I took it to work to have it XRFd and tested with a hardness tester so I think we'll get stock that's appropriate. All said and done, I don't think anyone will notice.

[Bugyotsuji]

Ah, thanks. Yes, that upright piece of metal is called the Ibo-kakushi, or screen to hide the protruding tongue. The hole in that one is purely decorative. Your trigger also has a decorative hole in it.

 

These ibo-kakushi came in several shapes and sizes and styles, and can often indicate the gun's place of manufacture. This is one of the reasons I suggested Kunitomo, as I have seen square ones with a forwards slant like yours from there, but it is not really definitive enough. Bizen and Awa guns also had a similar shape with a central hole, but your gun does not have any other supporting features of Bizen or Awa. 

 

PS Looks like the pan lid/cover hinge pin is blocked with dirt. These pins were hollow internally from the top down , so it's ok to clean it out.

 

PPS Kunitomo had a reputation to keep as the Tokugawa placed their orders there. It has been said that one of the distinguishing features of Kunitomo is a lack of any features, meaning that they could produce anything for any customer.

[DocVoltron]

Oh gotcha. Thank you so much for your help!

[Bugyotsuji]

Out of curiosity I worked through 1,000 Kunitomo smiths today looking for a last name with that Kanji, but found none.

 

Another long shot was Kunitomo locksmiths, and here I struck a possibility. In the Bunka~Tempo period there was a locksmith called 田中・又四郎, (Tanaka Matajirou)and it is quite possible that people called him 又 'Mata' for short. That could strengthen the reading of the mark in your brass lockplate. (Assuming of course that this is a Kunitomo gun, which is not yet proven.)

See some of these examples of how to write a 'Mata' in squiggle form.

「又」（U+53C8） | 日本古典籍くずし字データセット (rois.ac.jp)

[DocVoltron]

Some of those squiggly "Mata" characters look very close to the lock plate marking.