re ebay seller conduct

[markc]

hi everyone,

i recently posted in the translation section re a star stamp gunto, this sword i purchased on ebay. the seller now informs me that he is concerned about posting to australia and loosing his goods (he advertised that he posts to australia in the listing) his conditions were international bidders check before bidding and no bidders with less than 15 positive feedbacks. i have 7 positive feedbacks from ebay 100%.

he has cancelled the transaction and returned my money, mind you i had instantly paid for the item, do i have any rights as far as this is concerned? and can an ebay seller do this?

i wish to apologise to those that helped me in the translation section for wasting their time as now i do not appear to have the sword which to me is a great dissappointment

thanks

markc

[John A Stuart]

I think if the seller has put pre-conditions on a sale he would have the right to enforce them, no matter how unfair they seem. I have run into situations where sellers refuse to sell outside of their own countries. Frustrating. John

[markc]

thanks john,

i did not bother to check with the seller about international post because he did state that he would post to australia in his advertisement and as i said he was concerned about loosing his goods etc after i had paid for them? to me this is very puzzleing

markc

[DirkO]

Well I always check if they ship to Belgium before I bid. Sometimes even auctions marked as "US shipping only" will readily ship to Europe if you simply ask them.

[Stephen]

for some of the new members

 

I do offer a shipping service for members whos sellers will not ship out of USA.

 

I do charge a small fee, which encludes checking of packing (had some blades just rolling around in package) correct customs to give you a hassle free pick up/delivery quick same day service in weekdays.

[Bruno]

Sometimes even auctions marked as "US shipping only" will readily ship to Europe if you simply ask them.

 

True!

[Brian]

Yep...check with the seller if he will ship to Stephen for forwarding.

However I suspect the seller didn't get what he wanted for the sword, and found this easy way out. Just sounds that way to me. Good luck.

 

Brian

[Pete Klein]

his conditions were international bidders check before bidding and no bidders with less than 15 positive feedbacks. i have 7 positive feedbacks from ebay 100%.

then:

i did not bother to check with the seller...

 

Markc -- I'm sorry but this is quite straight forward. The seller stated specific requirements for this sale. If you had taken the time that you took to ask questions here to ask the seller before bidding perhaps you would not have had this happen. You were the one who chose not to do the due diligence -- perhaps you will in the future.

[markc]

thanks i totally agree with all your comments, newbe at this, my fault entirely have learned a valuable lesson from this one

thanks

markc

[Pete Klein]

Markc -- I am certain you will do well. Only the best of luck in all of your endeavors.

 

Doc Klein

[Kevin]

hi everyone,

the seller now informs me that he is concerned about posting to australia and loosing his goods (he advertised that he posts to australia in the listing) his conditions were international bidders check before bidding and no bidders with less than 15 positive feedbacks. i have 7 positive feedbacks from ebay 100%.

he has cancelled the transaction and returned my money, mind you i had instantly paid for the item, do i have any rights as far as this is concerned? and can an ebay seller do this?

 

No and yes, in that order.

 

Australia can be an odd place to get swords into. I think it depends upon the state. Myself, I'd give it a go, but I would have to take professional advice, plus a conversation with the relevant officialdom if there were any grey areas. Always get it bolted down from all angles first. There are usually legitimate ways of doing this, as long as the customer isn't going to insist that you cut corners and make a false declaration.

 

Kevin

[simonjbinks]

I understand eBay rules, and that the seller has a right to stipulate where he is willing to ship, but this instance makes no sense to me.

 

If the seller has already received the money, it is no longer his sword. It is the buyer's sword now (eBay legal transgressions notwithstanding), so whilst I may understand concern about shipping preferences in an abstract, "concern for what is now the buyer's property" sense; surely, practically, once the money has been transfered and collected, this must be the buyer's concern/decision?

 

Shipping anywhere internationally is the same amount of effort, certainly within English-speaking nations, so why the concern as to shipping to Australia?

 

Technically, yes, the buyer did not read the seller's eBay stipulation, and the seller has the right not to proceed with the transaction, but as stated above, this makes no practical sense to me.

 

There are lot of sellers that stipulate a US only policy. I guess this is their right, but I don't really understand it. Most of the swords went back to the US after the Occupation, as the US military formed the vast majority of the occupational forces, so though I have made some great finds, we are, by and large, starved for good pieces in Australia.

 

In a country as vast and sparsely populated as Australia, it can cost us as much in gas to travel to see a sword as to buy it, if it even turns out to be worth buying. The Web has made transferring files, photo's and general information much easier, but it is still easy to hide/miss hagiri in a lo-res Jpeg.

 

Access to the US market would be of great benefit to America's allies in four wars.

 

Of much greater concern are the 99.9% of Chinese fake and mismatched junk, fooling the neophytes. We all have to start somewhere and the obvious place is now eBay, but it is also the most dangerous. I just flip past anything from China, but there may be an occasional good blade underneath the Chinese-decorated fake or butchered mounts. This profiteering is ruining what would otherwise be a great way for us to buy and sell, transparently, with no middle-man giving us a pittance for our swords and marking them up by outrageous proportions.

 

Simon Binks

[David Flynn]

Japanese swords are not classed as illegal weapons by Autralian customs. Unless customs has a deal with the Victorian Govt.( they do have sword restrictions), The only thing Customs is concerned with, is collecting the tax on anything valued over $1000.00 au. Also, the best way to ship a sword to Oz, is EMS. Other services pile on the charges if customs becomes involved. If the declared value is less than $1000 au (about $850us) it automaticly by passes customs and is delivered directly to the postal address. If the declared value is over $1000au, there is a 10% tax and a Customs examination fee, about $60au. The other services, Fedex etc. Charge extra transport and examination fees if Customs are involved. This is in the vicinity of the customs fee, plus the tax, plus a fee for taking the tax and about an extra $150 for their trouble. Ends up working out pretty expensive.

[Weidas]

1000 AUD is non-tax value in Australia? Wow.. i really envy that. We in Lithuania have generous limit of.. ~ 30 USD. And i hate to pay 21% or more on items, which i obtain for my personal use or collection outside EU.

[Ed]

Mark,

I won't go into your responsibility to read fully the seller's stipulations as I think that has been fully covered.

 

I would like to say that any time a seller ships outside his/her country it entails considerably more work/aggravation. However once the process is understood it is not that difficult. As a dealer, I have sent swords to almost every continent, including several to Australia. All without a glitch (minus one instance were a sword was damaged in transit).

 

Several things to remember and which may be helpful to you in the future:

If you use paypal and are a "confirmed" user in your country, your status in the US is most likely "unconfirmed". Before you say "why", I don't know it is a Paypal thing.

 

International shipping causes seller anxiety over exactly what your seller disclosed "afraid of losing goods(or more specifically, his Money)". All that is necessary is that the buyer stipulate goods will not be shipped until money has actually been RECEIVED into his bank account. Once the money is in his account, it is a done deal. You may mention this to him or at least remember this in the future.

 

Another point to remember with Paypal, instant payment, is not actually instant. Yes, it shows on your paypal account as instant, but that money is not "in" the sellers Bank account. Messages like "money sent", "you have money" are somewhat deceiving indications of payment, payment which has not actually been received upon receipt of these messages.

Money must be transferred from sellers paypal account into sellers bank account. Just because you get a message saying "money sent" or "you have money", does not mean it is physically in the seller's bank account. It takes time for my bank to collect the money from your bank, and with international transfers it can take up to thirty days. While this can be frustrating, as long as both parties are aware and understanding, it is no reason not to conduct business internationally.

 

Personally, I stipulate that regardless of the payment type or destination it must be "IN" my account prior to shipping, period. And even though I accept most any type of payment, I recommend some methods over others in order to speed up this process and get your item to you asap.

 

One other point regarding E-bay is you may want to buy more things on e-bay to increase your standing, I have noticed where many buyers demand various numbers of positive feedbacks before they will sell to you. While I disagree with this, apparently it does not violate any e-bay policy, so you have no option but to abide by it. You need not buy big, expensive things, just stuff to up your numbers. Also, you state you have 7 positives, but didn't mention any negative feedback. I will assume you have none, but know that negative feedbacks are deal killers.

 

 

 

Simon,

I agree with you that Marks deal is senseless, the buyer had a sale and backed out. I suspect a lack of knowledge on the sellers part regarding International shipping or how to ensure his payment, caused him to cancel the sale, pity for both parties.

 

I sense some hostility towards the US Market. Please know that as far as I am aware there are no dealers in the US who refuse to business with our Australian allies. The lack of knowledge regarding International shipping I suspect is responsible for most "US only" policies. It is doubtful that it is discrimination towards Australia or any other country.

 

While I don't personally agree, E-bay is a entity of its own, and individuals have the right to do whatever they wish within e-bay policy. So many senseless e-bay policies are what prevent myself from all but rarely doing business there.

 

You stated "If the seller has already received the money, it is no longer his sword." This is technically correct but as I explained above "received" is the key word. Messages like "money sent", "you have money" are somewhat deceiving indications of payment, payment which has not actually been received upon receipt of these messages.

 

In regards to your statement, "we are, by and large, starved for good pieces in Australia". Just my worthless opinion but, I would recommend venues other than E-bay as the place to find good swords. Not to say there are never good swords offered there, but there are many cons, scams, rip-offs and just plain dumb asses to sort through.

[watsonmil]

I sympathize with the collector in Australia. I operated one of the largest internet Antique Weapons and Militaria sites in the world dealing in many high end items. Due to the ever increasing slide towards Fascism ( control or ban everything ) of the so called Western World, ... I am in the process of shutting down. The worst offender countries for shipping to that I found were Australia, the UK, Ireland, Japan, Italy, Spain and Belgium and believe it or not parts of the USA ( California and Massachusets are good examples ). Now having said that ... my country Canada is no better as they wanted me to obtain an export permit for a cotter key if it was at all possible that it might fit a No. 36 Grenade ( Canadian Export Control ). The point I am trying to make here is that unless people take back control of their respective countries by lobbying your representatives who are supposed to represent you and quit showing apathy we will have no way to collect Nihonto ... it along with table knives will be impossible to import or export.

... Ron Watson

[John A Stuart]

Ron, there are people fighting back. Those helping to modify legislation in Britain and Victoria, Oz. and the latest in New Hampshire, U Sof A. An appeal to SFI members I received last week, for example. John

 

Dear SFI member,

 

All to often, when any 'edged weapons' legislation is proposed, the end result for the enthusiast and collector is negative and the passage of anti-knife laws simply mean anti-sword laws aren't far behind. So when a state moves to affirm knife rights, Sword Forum takes notice! This is the case in the state of New Hampshire, where Representative Jenn Coffey has sponsored a Knife Rights Bill (HB1665). This bill not only affirms knife rights, but is even more important since a number of other states are closely watching the bill's development and it may lay the groundwork for similar legislation on a wider scale. We urge you to support HB1665 by making a contribution to Knife Rights. All funds go directly to paying for a lobbyist, publishing and direct expenses.

http://www.knifelawonline.com/donate-now.html

[watsonmil]

Yes, John I realize there are a few of us, .... I was one of a number who was instrumental in getting a Private Members Bill passed in Canada's House of Commons to abolish the Long Gun Registry. The member who introduced that Bill is from my Constituancy ... one Candice Hoeppner MP ( Portage Lisgar ). This does not however change the fact that Politicians will pimp their mothers for one more vote. Unless people speak up and generally the Politically incorrect ( although a majority ) are intimidated by the few bleeding heart's that champion the cause ...... " well if it only saves one life it's worth it ". I can only assume this is what happened in Ireland then the UK with the " sword ban ". My God, ... to be honest the last time I was in the UK, ... I had to travel to France to find an Englishman !

With respect, ... Ron Watson

[Matthew Spakoski]

I can tell you from years of personal experience that shipping internationally via ebay can be a real pain in the neck for a seller, especially with novice buyers. As ebay has mandated paypal payments for it's transactions, the only way to ship internationally is with a tracking number for the seller to protect themselves. If for instance something was shipped air parcel post (even if it's insured, the insurance number doesn't count for paypal tracking services, nor does the customs form number) and a buyer claimed that they never received it, the seller is out the funds, and the sword, period. No recourse, no arbitration, nothing. Sellers can't even leave negative feedback on ebay for the buyer anymore. It has been my experience that shipping costs (and methods) vary greatly from country to country. Even in the EU allowable parcel sizes are different from country to country, and will also change based upon the particular shipping service used to each individual country. And the cost to ship a sword sized box can swing anywhere from $30 for Air Parcel Post to $300 sometimes for a tracked service like FedEx or USPS Global Express depending upon destination.

 

Most newer buyers are probably not even aware of these issues, or prepared for the added expense. I think one of my favorites always was "Please insure the sword for the full 2K purchase price, but place the customs form value at $100 for duty purposes and ship via the least expensive method." And this is supposed to protect anybody how? This would be the reason sellers would prefer to deal with experienced buyers, and why they place those restrictions on an auction.

[Kevin]

I think one of my favorites always was "Please insure the sword for the full 2K purchase price, but place the customs form value at $100 for duty purposes and ship via the least expensive method." And this is supposed to protect anybody how?

 

I've had some of that. My answer is that I'm not going to make a false declaration to the Customs of the country concerned. It will be properly declared, fully insured, trackable, and with the correct harmonised tariff code. After all, Customs would be entitled to ask questions if the waybill says that it is insured for £2k but is only valued for £100. They ain't dumb.

 

Furthermore, if there are potential Customs problems at the other end then there's no point in ignoring this. I'll check it out with the relevant authorities to find the risk-free way of shipping it. In the case of Singapore it took a rather lengthy conversation with the relevant police department before we had an agreement, in black and white, on their requirements. The alternative was the edge being ground off. The relevant email, with a named senior officer, was included for the benefit of Singapore Customs, along with all the required paperwork. In the event, it went through like clockwork; the buyer recieved his sword whole, and without official vandalism. :-)

 

Now most buyers are happy when I explain this to them. However one guy threw his teddybear out of the pram when I told him that I wouldn't make a false declaration. He additionally instructed me to ignore the fact that swords were on the list of prohibited imports for his country. :-/ As it happens, there was a loophole for nihonto, but by the time that I confirmed that (about 2 days after the sale) he wanted his money back because I wouldn't do what he said. "I've done this lots of times" he said, which suggests that he's overdue for getting caught. Worse, some seller is likely to lose their sword, he's likely to reverse his transaction because he hasn't recieved the sword and, with his procedure, the seller is not protected. Anyway, he got his money back and didn't get his sword. Had he shut up for a couple of days and not been such a silly person, he'd have been informed that there were no problems as long as the right paperwork was filled in. It doesn't pay to be impatient. :-)

 

Kevin

[David Flynn]

A way around customs, is to declare the sword is being returned from restoration. Then it may also be insured.

[Jean]

A way around customs, is to declare the sword is being returned from restoration. Then it may also be insured

.

 

Question : When you send a sword for restoration, Have you not to fill in a Customs form, indicating that it is a temporary export and that the item is to come back, and in that case, don't you get a Customs receipt that you have to regularized when it comes back?

[Bazza]

David,

 

In my very limited experience Customs will want to see proof that a blade being returned from restoration was originally sent from (in our case) Australia. Years ago when sending a blade out I would take it to a Notary (a Justice of the Peace or someone sworn to take affidavits or statutory declarations) with an oshigata of the blade and after showing thwm the sword and explaining "the deal" have them stamp the oshigata with their seal attesting to the fact that they had sighted it. Any false declarations along these lines has the potential to get anyone in very deep caca with Customs. When it comes to treasured blades honesty is definitely the best policy.

 

Jean - you are certainly right, but here in Australia at least it is possible (or perhaps was) to just put a blade in the post and send it off. When it is returned by post from Japan is where the caca could hit from Customs if one did not have proof that it was originally sent out of Australia. If sending by a freight agent your question certainly applies - but OH MY - the costs can be horrendous. Recently (two or three years back) the charges alone to get a returning blade through the freight agent and Customs was about AUD$800. As others have said, shipping swords anywhere can be a nightmare unless one does one's homework and gets it right.

 

Regards,

BaZZa

[Jean]

Thanks a lot Bazza for this answer because clearly, in France, if you have not declare the item at Customs, when sent abroad , when it comes back all hell is going to break loose when the sword hits the Customs (I am quite pleased by this metaphore :lol: ). They are two Administrations not to fuss with : IRS and Customs

[David Flynn]

I notified customs that I would be returning to Australia with some swords I had for restoration in Japan. I was notifed by customs, that all I had to do was just inform customs when I arrived. As it turned out, I didn't bring the swords back with me for reasons I wish not to disclose.

In 2006 I took a sword from Oz to USA without informing customs. When I returned, I just informed the Airport customs officer that the sword was mine and there wasn't a problem.

[David Flynn]

As long as you declare on the arrival doc. that you are carrying a weapon, customs only want to check that it's not on the banned list.

[Jean]

You are very lucky, in France, the first thing Customs are interested in is : "have you anything to declare", if you say no and that you are not controlled - perfect - If you are controlled you better have a good explanation and have very good proof of your good faith :

 

- Bill of sale - proof of Payment - If imported sword : tax quitus - Proof that it is the same sword .....

[Weidas]

hello everyone, i was reading this topic with huge interest. I'm buyer, not seller, and it is interesting to know what issues or problems "the other side" can have while selling. Makes it easier to understand terms and conditions of sellers, which are sometimes, from my point of view, not 100% logical.

 

As i wrote i'm buyer and yes, i'm one of "these", who asks for possibility to indicate lower value. Honestly, besides to save money(that is good too), i think that regulations of our customs to put dues and taxes on items, which i obtain for personal use, is stupid, especially then non-taxable value is ~ 25-30 USD. However, i respect seller decision and keep my side of bargain - then bidding i always consider that i'll have to pay 100% of taxes. I believe, i obtained different items from several members of this forum, some of them agreed with my request, some not and i don't think that they felt any kind of frustration from my side.

I understand that there are n-number of not honest buyers and i believe that is why seller has rights to list his terms and conditions of auction & shipping.

What frustrates me, though, is then seller starts to invent new terms or conditions after the auction. I had one case viceversa to Kevin's. I won on auction, was ready to transfer payment, when suddenly seller wrote me, that it is forbidden to import edged weapons to Lithuania and he refuses to ship the item. It didn't help neither my offer to check my feed-backs, where 90% of items obtained are edged weapons, nor my proposal to write confirmation that seller is not responsible for actions of my customs. I think it wouldn't help even if i would provide customs code of Lithuania in English.. The only reason i could think out, that seller was not satisfied with sales price and thus was trying to cancel the deal. It was showato and, although price was good, i didn't start the issue on e-bay and allowed to cancel the deal. As you see, the stick has two ends.

 

i think exact and clear listing of seller terms and conditions will help in 90% of deals. the other 10%... well there are dishonest buyers, there are dishonest sellers and there is always risk selling or buying in web.

 

best regards

[Weidas]

just to add about current import regulations in Lithuania. Private person can import up to 2 edged weapons without any permission from police. Non-taxable value if shipper again is private person is 30 USD, if company - 20 USD. Appr. dues on edged weapons is 1.7% plus 21% VAT, plus small post fee. Upon arrival of package i get phone call from post office, i send them general information item and value, and they calculate what i have to pay. Customs point is located in post office and i don't need to approach customs myself. Depending on type of postal service i pay my dues upon delivery of item or when picking up from the nearest post office.

[ironron]

I find it frustrating with the uk ban on swords on ebay. I have been collecting edged weapons since i was a lad, some fifty odd years,

With the advent off ebay, it gave everyone a chance to have ago at bidding, instead of paying inflated prices from dealers.

Now i cant even bid on any weapons on ebay.This blanket ban on all weapons on ebay if you live in the uk. Even if it a couple of hundred yers old, is badly thought out.

 

I have complained to ebay about this, but have not had a reasonable answer from them.I thought the law when changed stated that if you were a serious collector,it would not affect us.

 

Ebay doesn't seem give a toss about us , or cant be bothered to sort out the wheat from the chaff :x