Hirazukuri wakazashi

katonk66 · May 1

Hello, this is more of a general inquiry, as I'm not familiar with the Southern/Northern Court era. That being said, were the hirazukuri blades during the Nanboku-cho era used by the bushi, commoners or both? I ask, as in a lot of the period artwork I've seen, the bushi had a tachi nihontou and tanto as the auxiliary blade??

Geraint · May 2

Dear Henry.

A somewhat generalised answer. Our current rather rigid classification of swords by very specific length is a modern system. I do not think that a system of regulation existed that specified what swords could be carried by whom at that point. Nambokucho period tanto tend to be long, often longer than our classification, wide and thin, fitting into a grey area of o-tanto or ko-wakizashi. Generally speaking wakizashi as we now classify them are not a feature of the period.

For more information see here, https://nihonto.com/the-tanto-短刀/

All the best.

WellsFargo · May 2

My apologies for hi-jacking the thread and possibly asking the silliest question ever.... Why do some people use the term "nihontou" instead of "nihonto"?

Are both correct?

Jan-Wouter

Abaris · May 2

It's written Nihontō, and ō means the "o" is elongated so it's pronounced like a long "o". It can be represented either with "ō" or with "ou".

WellsFargo · May 2

Thanks for the explanation, Carlos!

SteveM · May 2

Some more information about the development of the wakizashi that might be helpful.

https://markussesko....08/11/the-wakizashi/

katonk66 · May 2

4 hours ago, SteveM said:

Some more information about the development of the wakizashi that might be helpful.

https://markussesko....08/11/the-wakizashi/

Very complicated, in the delineation of the different swords.

katonk66 · May 3

Hello again. So I was trying to ascertain where a "ko-wakazashi" would be placed on the bushi? According to the first illustration during the Nanboku-chou Period, (2nd link) his auxiliary nihontou appears to be underneath his yoroi. That would make sense for a smaller "tanto", but would a hira-zukuri nihontou be placed outside of his yoroi, in his obi? (almost like the Tokugawa era daisho) I would think that the length would interfere with his yoroi, if he place it underneath. Just curious.

SteveM · May 3

33 minutes ago, katonk66 said:

According to the first illustration during the Nanboku-chou Period, (2nd link)

Which link are you referring to? I can't find this link in the thread. I would be skeptical of trying to make conclusions about sword use and length by looking at old prints. Nanbokuchō seems particularly far away for any useful prints to have survived up until now. Most prints tend to be Edo period prints, and the Edo artists weren't necessarily scholars of Nanbokuchō sword usage.

katonk66 · May 3

1 hour ago, SteveM said:

Which link are you referring to? I can't find this link in the thread. I would be skeptical of trying to make conclusions about sword use and length by looking at old prints. Nanbokuchō seems particularly far away for any useful prints to have survived up until now. Most prints tend to be Edo period prints, and the Edo artists weren't necessarily scholars of Nanbokuchō sword usage.

https://markussesko....08/11/the-wakizashi/

SteveM · May 3

OK - now I got it. But you also have to take note of Markus's comment that says, "don’t pay too much attention to details of the armor shown."

Might be better to refer to the illustrations on the site below, which show longish companion swords being worn thrust through an obi that is tied around the outside of the kusazari. As to whether or not they get in the way, @Bugyotsuji probably knows something about this, so maybe he can comment. Also, not all soldiers had the full ōyoroi outfit.

https://costume.iz2.or.jp/column/554.html

And also there is the possibility that the sword you showed wasn't meant to be a companion sword, but instead was a sword intended for some other use (maybe just as a short sword to be used for self-protection by someone travelling the roads, or maybe a temple offering, etc...).

katonk66 · May 3

18 minutes ago, SteveM said:

OK - now I got it. But you also have to take note of Markus's comment that says, "don’t pay too much attention to details of the armor shown."

Might be better to refer to the illustrations on the site below, which show longish companion swords being worn thrust through an obi that is tied around the outside of the kusazari. As to whether or not they get in the way, @Bugyotsuji probably knows something about this, so maybe he can comment. Also, not all soldiers had the full ōyoroi outfit.

https://costume.iz2.or.jp/column/554.html

And also there is the possibility that the sword you showed wasn't meant to be a companion sword, but instead was a sword intended for some other use (maybe just as a short sword to be used for self-protection by someone travelling the roads, or maybe a temple offering, etc...).

Got it. Also, I found this picture in one of the books I have. I would assume the Bushi probably (as in an acting portrayal) plundered the helmet from a higher ranking Samurai. LOL. I would assume that IF worn by a Samurai, it would be worn in this position and primarily by ground forces that were archers, used naginata, yari...or this nodachi?

SteveM · May 3

I'm out of my depth here with regard to battlefield tactics. An author named Stephen Turnbull is a well-respected writer in English of samurai history, some of his books would be worth looking at.

Bugyotsuji · May 3

The Tachi was slung from the hip when wearing Ō-yoroi and there was a hip protecting pad to prevent damage to the scabbard.

When Tachi went out of fashion, a Tantō or longer blade could be pushed through the long intermediate strings of the gesan (kusazuri) with the plates outside the scabbard. (The photo above is not quite right.) It was bound in place centered within the obi mawashi which to some degree protected it from rubbing against your own armour, but as the article suggests this could mean distortion of the saya as your mawashi needs to be tightly tied.

Baka Gaijin · May 4

Bugyotsuji · May 4

Ah, that's our local outfit. They use the same changing room as us. Will be seeing them tomorrow morning!

katonk66 · May 6

On 5/4/2024 at 1:01 AM, Baka Gaijin said:

Is there a martial arts name for this type of performance, "Iaido"? I love these two videos!

Baka Gaijin · May 7

Hi Henry

Try researching Kobudo 古武道

The Meiji Jingu Embu and Nippon Budokan Kobudo demonstrations willl fill in the gaps.

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