Question

[MikeIke447]

Hi, I'm very new to katanas and have a couple of questions.

I'm in the market for Japanese katanas and my budget is around $15K but between the two swords which one is "better" in terms of condition and the quality? One has these dark spots and I don't know if thats shingane and it also has a small rust spot. Aside from that I cannot find any flaws/defects on either of the swords. If you see any could you point them out I'm very eager to learn. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated!

 

* Pic 1&2 one sword then pics 3&4 is the other sword.

 

 

 

.  Pic 1

 

. Pic 2

 

 

 

 

  Pic 3. * You can see the rust spot right above 

 

 

   Pic 4    * Dark shadows/spots can be seen on the hamon here

 

 

 

 

 

[oli]

choose the on you like more, so i do,

 

 

[MikeIke447]

What do you mean? 

[oli]

Why you chosen this 2? 

[MikeIke447]

These caught my eye honestly. I like their hamon. 

[MikeIke447]

Do you have better suggestions?

[oli]

My only suggestion would be, to go to one of the dealers or sword shows in USA. There you have the opportunity to take the sword in your hand and talk to people. With this budget you have many opportunities. 

[Matsunoki]

1 hour ago, MikeIke447 said:

between the two swords which one is "better" in terms of condition and the quality

Totally impossible to tell from images. On one the Hadori is so heavy it conceals most of the hamon details. Can’t see any hada at all, no idea re any other “activity”. Total gamble and at that $price I’d be wanting to actually have the sword in my hands. Best to be cautious and know exactly what you are buying rather than regret  it later.

[MikeIke447]

Ahh I see here are the links if that helps any? 

https://www.token-ne...token/202312-59.html

https://world.seiyud...m/product/ka-060423/

[Rivkin]

Frankly I think both are weak swords. There is not much variation within hamon, weak if any utsuri, mostly dense and indistinct jigane: every sin of late Bizen imitation is here.

[MikeIke447]

I'm glad I asked someone more knowledgeable. What should I look for in that price range? 

[Rivkin]

Its a really weird price range because it corresponds to a good koto blade which is TH and has issues preventing from going Juyo or top Edo period smith which is suriage or severe machi-okure. Both are kind of strange things...

Judging by your taste I would look for a TH Oei Bizen blade in good condition and with a wild hamon. That's about 8-12K USD in modern money. Or very good ishido school Edo period, with utsuri, that's probably around 6-10K USD.

Best advice is not to rush things, wait month-two to see what comes by. Swordshow is great, but only if one tempers the spirit and does not come with attitude "I have to buy something to justify being here". 

Also, generally blades sold with koshirae are for beginners and not the best quality, its kind of "package".

 

Some Japanese online stores are extremely expensive.

[MikeIke447]

Do you have a favorite site you buy from because I mainly have looked at those? 

[MikeIke447]

Ive also found this one below. What do you think about that one? Also the problem is is that I don't know where to start and what to look for and how it should look. 

https://world.seiyud...m/product/ka-020124/ 

[Rivkin]

That's a much better blade that does not have the issues that other do, but when selling you'll get maybe 5-7K USD for this one. Will be extremely tough to get more.

 

[MikeIke447]

Damn why is there such a mark up then? And why is that blade better? 

[Rivkin]

Because they can. If you have established clientelle that does not look for resale value.. to be honest, if you buy top of the top blade from this seller chances are you'll get decent value. But buying something of lesser grade does not make any commercial sense.

Its one order better because in hands it will be brighter, will play in light, hamon will stand out against utsuri, there is nice jigane. Its a very good blade, its just from a period which is very hard to resell above 10K.

[BIG]

Mike isnt it too early to buy??

 

Best

[Abaris]

I would ask @Ray Singer. He has very good swords for value.

[BjornLundin]

Any price range is hard.  

 

Is it Bizen that you are looking for?

 

I like this one... It is not a katana, but from a known/famous smith. Nice time period, and you have the other oei smith to collect also. Yen is weak now also. 

 

https://www.aoijapan...kubetsu-hozon-token/

 

Other than that, I would ask around, as suggested earlier, maybe with more specific details of what you want. 

[MikeIke447]

Wow I'm shocked at what I'm hearing. I didn't think that was possible. I'm mainly looking for a katana with "wild" hamon like the ones above preferably with eye catching Koshirae but if that's not available then I'll happily go with one in Shirasaya only. Price range 10-18k

[Rivkin]

Its a weird price range with not a lot to offer. You can get what you are looking at with 5-8K investment - Ishido, Oei Bizen, Omiya are probably the best schools to look at. They are more or less what you like, can be really wild, they are all good schools and they are beginner friendly without being shallow.

 

You can then build quite good koshirae around it for about 3k usd.

 

For example that's how good Omiya looks like.

[MikeIke447]

Out of curiosity what price range would not be "weird" for a good sword in your opinion?

[Rivkin]

That depends on what you are looking at... Ishido, Omiya 5-8k is reasonable, Oei Bizen can be had for 8-12, good late Muromachi work 5-9k. If you aim higher you have to know much better what you want. Great swords start at 25-30k usd. 10-20k usd is the price range with very few things like ko-Aoe TH with significant condition issues.

[BjornLundin]

No don't tell about Omiya, prices will go up

 

15k -  https://nihonto.com....thk-npo-certificate/

10.5k - https://www.nipponto.../detailomiyaden.html

7.8k just sold - https://www.samuraim...k-hozon-certificate/

 

Is there any more that is on the market?

 

Omiya usually pops up occasionally and maybe a bit underrated. 

[MikeIke447]

Food for thought. I have decided to educate myself further on katanas with the hopes of soon buying one in the 25-30k range.  Any suggestions on where to find a good source of info on what to avoid in katanas?

[MikeIke447]

Bjorn you have caught my attention with the Katana Koto - Omiya Den - Price Euro 9.916,00. https://www.nipponto.../detailomiyaden.html 
 

Would this be a good piece to add to a beginner’s collection? It looks absolutely beautiful! More importantly is it worth the money? I ask because all preconceived notions of what is worth it or not have been shattered.

[BjornLundin]

Personally, 

 

Without knowledge, this is a bit of a minefield (but what area of antiques and art isn't?). When starting, the problem is knowing my taste, what I like, what to look for, and what area of interest. Will I buy to learn from the item and then sell it to move forward or to buy and keep it?

 

I probably made all the mistakes from the start and continue to learn. 

 

Grey has many books https://www.Japanese.../item-category/book/

 

-B

[BjornLundin]

I would ask the seller

 

I know too little of the subtle aspects of what makes a blade this and that price. Others probably are much better than me to advise on price. 

 

-B

 

update.

 

I asked about an Omiya katana that was on Aoi a time ago. There are some examples of different Omiya blades in the thread, which can give a bit of perspective on the different levels. If you search of Omiya on the forum you will get more threads about this school. This one was very nice https://world.seiyud...m/product/ka-010918/ . 

 

 

[Rivkin]

I quote collector to collector prices... The negative here is no utsuri. Its common with Omiya, but its not going to be as pretty or highly valued as a blade with utsuri. Unless it goes full swing soden bizen, which its not. Polish is average.

Big plus - very consistent work, no major kizu. Its probably at attractive blade. Ito wrapping is modern and overall the koshirae you can build much better for 2-3k. 

But I would wait for couple of months with any major purchase. Most of these things you are going to see them over and over.

I've sold three or four Omiya daito if I remember correctly for 4k, 6k and 8k. Actually 4k was as good as 8k, just for some reason there were not many offers.

But generally Omiya can be very good.