Help with the originality Shin gunto

[Fumei]

Hi to All!

Please help to determine if this sword is original?
To what period can the blade of the sword belong?
Also, please decipher the signature on the sword.

 

Thanks in advance

 

fumei

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Fumei,

This sword was made in China, attempting to appear Japanese.  A few reasons:

- 5 digit number on habaki.  The only swords used by Japanese with numbers on habaki were Railway swords, and this is not one

- One way folding on tsuka wrap.  Standard Chinese method.  Japanese used alternating twist directions

- Fuchi decorations are not Japanese

- Biggest tell of all: Damascus steel blade.  Damascus steel was not used during WWII by anyone, neither Japan, nor their collaborators in occupied areas.

 

Maybe someone can attempt to translate the mei.  I don't read Japanese, nor Chinese, but it doesn't look like a real smith name.  Maybe @BANGBANGSAN can help?

 

There were swods made in occupied territories during the war that had poor quality fittings, similar to yours, but none of them would have a Damascus steel blade.  I guarantee it.

[Bruce Pennington]

I did wonder about the fuchi pattern, whether it could be Manchurian

 

But I checked, and the Manchurian pattern is this:

 

But like I said, the Damascus steel is still the biggest problem.

 

Sorry for the bad news, my friend. 

[Yumso]

Hello Fumei,

 

Not 100% sure of second character but it seems like either 和纠住包友 or 和到住包友.

I don't think it's someone's name. 

 

 

Yoon

[Bugyotsuji]

和州住包友

 

Wa Shū Jū Kanetomo 

[vajo]

The quality of the fittings are better than the most fake swords. I don't think this sword wan't be a "original" Japanese gunto. The fittings are not coppied from original ones. Someone designed them complete new. I think it is a fantasy deko sword that looks like a Japanese gunto 

[Fumei]

4 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Fumei,

This sword was made in China, attempting to appear Japanese.  A few reasons:

- 5 digit number on habaki.  The only swords used by Japanese with numbers on habaki were Railway swords, and this is not one

- One way folding on tsuka wrap.  Standard Chinese method.  Japanese used alternating twist directions

- Fuchi decorations are not Japanese

- Biggest tell of all: Damascus steel blade.  Damascus steel was not used during WWII by anyone, neither Japan, nor their collaborators in occupied areas.

 

Maybe someone can attempt to translate the mei.  I don't read Japanese, nor Chinese, but it doesn't look like a real smith name.  Maybe @BANGBANGSAN can help?

 

There were swods made in occupied territories during the war that had poor quality fittings, similar to yours, but none of them would have a Damascus steel blade.  I guarantee it.

Bruce,

Thank you very much for your thorough explanation about this sword.
You helped me a lot.

[Fumei]

3 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said:

和州住包友

 

Wa Shū Jū Kanetomo 

Bugyotsuji,

Thanks a lot for your help with reading the kanji.

[Fumei]

Thank you all for your help!

 

Another question I'm interested in is whether there even existed a master named Washū Jū Kanetomo,

because I couldn't find that name in the electronic catalog Swordsmith https://nihontoclub....ovince_value&sort=..

[Bruce Pennington]

Washu is another name for Yamato, which if I'm correct, was a province near today's Nara.  There was a Kanetomo from Yamato, that signed Washu but he was in the 1400s

KANETOMO (包友), 4th gen., Eikyō (永享, 1429-1441), Yamato – “Kanetomo” (包友), “Washū Tegai-jū Kanetomo” (和州手掻住包友), the 4th gen. Kanetomo was still active in Yurugi (油留木, als written with the characters [由留木], [動] or [動木]), suguha or gunome-midare in ko-nie-deki with sunagashi, wazamono.

 

I doubt this blade came from the 1400's, but you are welcome to post it, best with all the fittings removed, over on the Nihoto forum - Nihonto - Nihonto Message Board (militaria.co.za) - where they are more skilled at making those judgements. 

[Fumei]

23 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Washu is another name for Yamato, which if I'm correct, was a province near today's Nara.  There was a Kanetomo from Yamato, that signed Washu but he was in the 1400s

KANETOMO (包友), 4th gen., Eikyō (永享, 1429-1441), Yamato – “Kanetomo” (包友), “Washū Tegai-jū Kanetomo” (和州手掻住包友), the 4th gen. Kanetomo was still active in Yurugi (油留木, als written with the characters [由留木], [動] or [動木]), suguha or gunome-midare in ko-nie-deki with sunagashi, wazamono.

 

I doubt this blade came from the 1400's, but you are welcome to post it, best with all the fittings removed, over on the Nihoto forum - Nihonto - Nihonto Message Board (militaria.co.za) - where they are more skilled at making those judgements. 

Many Thanks, Bruce.

[BANGBANGSAN]

13 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Fumei,

This sword was made in China, attempting to appear Japanese.  A few reasons:

- 5 digit number on habaki.  The only swords used by Japanese with numbers on habaki were Railway swords, and this is not one

- One way folding on tsuka wrap.  Standard Chinese method.  Japanese used alternating twist directions

- Fuchi decorations are not Japanese

- Biggest tell of all: Damascus steel blade.  Damascus steel was not used during WWII by anyone, neither Japan, nor their collaborators in occupied areas.

 

Maybe someone can attempt to translate the mei.  I don't read Japanese, nor Chinese, but it doesn't look like a real smith name.  Maybe @BANGBANGSAN can help?

 

There were swods made in occupied territories during the war that had poor quality fittings, similar to yours, but none of them would have a Damascus steel blade.  I guarantee it.

It look like a Chinese repro to me.

 

The mei is fake,reads:  

和州住包友 Wa Shu Ju Kanetomo 

 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

We are leading this poor fellow on a wild goose chase to investigate this clear chinese repro any further. They painted the blade along with the Habaki for god's sake..!