Daisho menuki

[Yves]

Can someone explain to me why daisho menuki (and daisho fittings in general) are so difficult to find. One would assume that with the requirement for samurai in the Edo era to wear a daisho as sign of their rank, there would be plenty available, but that is not the case. 

[Dan tsuba]

Hello Yves!

 

I can only guess at an answer to your question.  But I can only figure that some daisho fittings get lost or become separated from one another over time.  

I mean we could be talking about a couple of hundred years that the daisho swords and their fittings were worn by a samurai, things happen!

 

With respect,

Dan

[Spartancrest]

They probably still exist but getting them out of other peoples collections is tricky!  

Check out what Gary Montgomery did to "ruin" a daisho [no disrespect to Gary, he was honest about it!]  https://www.tsukamak...ary_montgomery01.pdf  Tsuba, but it would still apply to fittings.

[Robert S]

Yves:  Do you think that Daisho would typically have had matching menuki?  I'd sort of wonder of they might not have had different but related menuki sometimes, to sort of extend the symbolism - like symbols for perseverance and for strength.

[Yves]

  On 4/23/2024 at 12:10 AM, Robert S said:

Yves:  Do you think that Daisho would typically have had matching menuki?  I'd sort of wonder of they might not have had different but related menuki sometimes, to sort of extend the symbolism - like symbols for perseverance and for strength.

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Well, I resorted to buying 2 sets of the same menuki to fit my katana and wakizashi, but by principle they are a set with the same thing just in different configurations (at least the ones I've seen).

[Jesta]

  On 4/23/2024 at 12:10 AM, Robert S said:

Yves:  Do you think that Daisho would typically have had matching menuki?  I'd sort of wonder of they might not have had different but related menuki sometimes, to sort of extend the symbolism - like symbols for perseverance and for strength.

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Is there any reason to think that daisho would always have matching sets of tsuba? There are certainly plenty of examples of matching sets, but would it be possible to wear swords with differing tosogu? 

 

I also think that there were probably more people who wore a single sword than samurai who wore two, so single tsuba may be more common as a result. 

[Yves]

As far as I know, there was a requirement from the Shogunate in Edo era Japan that required samurai to wear a daisho as sign of their rank. As the Edo era lasted for about 250+ years, I would think there would have been enough daisho's over the centuries.

[cluckdaddy76]

Would these be considered a true daisho set?

[SteveM]

The way these are boxed, it definitely gives the impression they were intended to be sold as daishō menuki. 

On the other hand, I would expect the wakizashi menuki to be noticeably smaller in a daishō set, whereas both pairs of these menuki look to be the same size. Also, the workmanship looks late Edo and possibly early Meiji, even. Not very expertly carved, and maybe even cast. So then you get close to the rabbit hole of the question of "what is a true daishō?" It's a question that sparks a lot of animated discussion. If you search this forum, you can find other threads on it. 

[cluckdaddy76]

These may not have come together; they are in a large collection I acquired. The lower pair is papered by themselves and not as a set. I am still waiting to see if there are papers for the upper pair, we are still sorting through things from a large estate. Both definitely not cast, but lower pair to me looks better quality. I am not convinced they are a true pair myself based on size, but someone I showed suggested it was since one was a single large hen/rooster and the other was a pair of smaller birds. Unfortunately, this large collection was abused for many years and some papers have most likely been lost. This was just a single box that I placed both pairs in for the pic. This is also a mediocre pic, they look much better in hand especially the bottom pair. Top pair if cleaned a bit should bring out a bit more detail.