Value of this certificate

[Yves]

Would like to know if this certificate has any real value? Don't know the organization in question. Thanks.

[Bugyotsuji]

Not getting much thanks for answering you, Yves, but here goes just once more.

 

You have not included the name of the organization in your photo, so we are left to guess. 

[Yves]

Sorry, no clearer pictures than this unfortunately. 

[Bugyotsuji]

Ah, signed by Nagata, so it must be NKBKHK certificate, which may be the best there is.

And ‘tokubetsu kitchō’ means especially valuable (historically, culturally).

 

Why do you ask?

[Yves]

Thanks Piers. Wanted to make sure this is the real deal and not some knock off etc. 

[Bugyotsuji]

I’m biased, coz I like green! 

[Yves]

 I would prefer black, but this thing has something. 
PS: sorry for this, but lot's of thanks for your assistance Piers. 

[Bazza]

To parrot a topical saying amongst my drinking compadres:

"Is green, is good!"

 

BaZZa.

[Bugyotsuji]

It should be added, however, that the 'value' answer above may be relative to other certificates.

 

Whether it adds serious value to an object in the same manner as NBTHK certificates for swords, is another matter.

[Yves]

So it has no value?

[Bugyotsuji]

  On 4/19/2024 at 7:48 AM, Yves said:

So it has no value?

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To purists who know everything about katchū, it has little value, simply stating what they already know.

 

To 99.9999% of the world’s population it is a wonderful thing to have, a vote of confidence, a relief, proof, a back-up by the ‘experts’.

 

The paper on its own has little value, but together with the armour they complement each other.

 

If you want paperwork for your armour, this is the best you’ll find, apart from very rare old manuscripts of course by long-dead appraisers.

 

And yes, I like it!

[Bugyotsuji]

By the way I have a gold coin from the Edo Period, a little Himé Koban. On its own it’s probably worth 40,000 JPY.

 

If I send it to Tokyo for certification it will cost me 10,000 JPY to go through the process. If it gains good paperwork it could be worth ¥100,000.
 

But if it fails, I will always know in my heart that it’s an old fake, or a newer fake. Most people in Japan do not seem to bother to file for certificates.(?)

 

So the ‘value’ of the paperwork depends on the reputation of the organization, and paperwork for objects might vary in value depending on your collecting field. Thus paperwork for J guns probably add little to the value of a gun, whereas paperwork for swords which demand serious scholarly judgement tends to be of higher value.

 

Back to your armor above for a moment. Recently I bought a kabuto with paperwork such as yours from the NKBKHK, and personally speaking I am glad, so I value the paperwork and the thought processes behind it.

[Gakusee]

A value of a certificate issued by a reputable and trusted organisation in principle (without specifying organisations per se) lies in the implied assurance the reader draws that a panel of knowledgeable experts have examined the item. In most cases, these knowledgeable (usually Japanese) experts are much more adept and skilled than us here in the West and reputationally and empirically they are trusted. 
If you look at different organisations in Japan, in general they attest slightly different things. But a common denominator seems to be:

- the item is authentic 

- of a certain (old) age 

- worthy of preservation 

 

Therefore to the user, the value lies in the assurance they are not buying eg, a plexiglass armour made yesterday or a gimei sword with blatantly wrong signature or a cast menuki that purports to be Goto yet was made in China. 
 

You will need to undertake a further study of the various certificate issuing authorities and I recommend you visit their websites (both Western branches and HQ Japanese branches) and use something like Google Translate to read what their certification actually means. After the initial take, then you ought to look at what it might mean if the certificate also mentions a signature which is on the certified item:

- does the authority / panel agree with the signature 

- does it “authenticate” the signature and accept it or does it not

Etc etc. This is where it becomes much more involved and interesting. 

[Yves]

Meanwhile someone strongly warned me against this seller. 

[Luc T]

Yves, this is indeed a certificate issued by the NKBKHK.   The advantage here is that the judges names are on the certificate, so their reputation stand or fall with their judgement.  Commercial parties can’t be a judge.  You can find more info on our Japanese Armor Society website, the western branch of the NKBKHK:

https://www.Japanese...orsociety.com/shinsa

[Yves]

Hi Luc, thanks. Meanwhile I have some doubts about the reputation of the seller in question.

PS: also messaged you on facebook as I was also referred to you by someone else. 

[Luc T]

  On 4/19/2024 at 11:45 AM, Yves said:

Hi Luc, thanks. Meanwhile I have some doubts about the reputation of the seller in question.

PS: also messaged you on facebook as I was also referred to you by someone else. 

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hi Yves, something went wrong, can you send me a new message?

[Yves]

See your facebook messenger.

[Yves]

BTW for those interested: found a Japanese site that lists all fake sellers on sites like jauce etc.:
https://gansakubokumetsu.web.fc2.com/