Nobunaga + Nagamasa, Help Please

[Bruce Pennington]

Can I get a full translation of both sides of this, please?  They seem to be 2 different smiths and both have kao.  Thanks guys!

 

[ROKUJURO]

NAGAMASA and SHIGENAGA?

[uwe]

Left both sides referring to a cutting test, Bruce (...it was late yesterday 🥱).

 

“二ッ胴入土壇村井三丞長止(kao)試焉”

 

If no one chimes in, I’ll give it a try this evening…now off for work!

Edited April 10, 2024 by uwe

[MauroP]

Actually the paper reports 無銘 (越前関) - mumei (Echizen Seki)

[Bruce Pennington]

17 hours ago, uwe said:

I’ll give it a try this evening

Thanks Uwe!

 

I should have recognized the kao style.  Cutter kao have that top horizontal line.  They usually have horizontals on the top and bottom, whereas smith kao will only have one on the bottom.

[uwe]

Well, late at home today, so not much progress. But a first guess for both:

 

"金象嵌" (kin-zôgan)

二ッ胴入土壇村井三丞長止(kao)試焉 (Futatsu-dô dotan-iri Murai Misuke Naga ? "kao" tame ?)

 

"銀象嵌" (gin-zôgan)
下口テスエ落岡田十郎兵衛重長(kao)試焉 (Shita ? otoshi Okada Jûrobei Shigenaga "kao" tame ?)

 

I'm not really happy (or convinced) and will follow up with this.....

[xiayang]

（金象嵌）ニツ胴入土壇村井三丞長止（花押）試焉

（銀象嵌）下ヲケス工落岡田十郎兵衛重長（花押）試焉

 

Here's a link to the original listing: https://www.e-sword....1210_1088syousai.htm

 

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, xiayang said:

（金象嵌）ニツ胴入土壇村井三丞長止（花押）試焉

（銀象嵌）下ヲケス工落岡田十郎兵衛重長（花押）試焉

 

Here's a link to the original listing: https://www.e-sword....1210_1088syousai.htm

 

 

I can't read Japanese.  Would you mind giving the English version of these?  Are they both cut tests?  Are the separate tests, or speaking of the same test? Do they state dates?

 

Thanks guys!!!

[John C]

2 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

I can't read Japanese.

Bruce:

Not sure if you have a Mac, but if you do, you can click on the link, go to View, then scroll down to translate and click. PC may have the same sort of functionality. 

 

John C.

[xiayang]

2 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Would you mind giving the English version of these? 

 

This is not so straightforward and I'll have to admit I'm slightly out of my depth here.

Here's my best guess:

 

 

(金象嵌) ニツ胴入土壇村井三丞長止 (花押) 試焉

 

(金象嵌) = kinzōgan (gold inlay)

ニツ胴 – I believe this refers to a cut through the chest area (https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/uploads/monthly_05_2020/post-18-0-44763600-1590555052.jpg)

入土壇 = entered the earth mound (i.e., the cut went all the way through)

村井三丞 = Murai Sanjō^[?] (the cutter's name, not sure how to read his given name though)

長止 = Nagatome?

(花押) = kaō

試焉  = tested

 

 

(銀象嵌) 下ヲケスエ落岡田十郎兵衛重長 (花押) 試焉

 

(銀象嵌) = ginzōgan (silver inlay)

下ヲケスエ落 – I suspect this may refer to another type of cut, but I'm not sure at all

岡田十郎兵衛 = Okada Jūrobei (a name)

重長 = Shigenaga?

(花押) = kaō

試焉  = tested

[uwe]

Two tests by two different testers, I assume. Okada were retainers of the Aizu fief (probably around mid 19th century).
 

ニツ胴 - means cut through two bodies 

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks for digging into this, guys, I appreciate it.  I haven't been following the cut test mei for very long, but it sure seems unusual to have 2 tests done on the same blade.  If it was a normal practice, you'd think we would see more of this.  Of course, @Markus would have seen it, if it was normal.