Japanese sword identification

[WISDOMSEEKER]

I have this Japanese sword. I would like to discover more about it. I would be interested to know about the handle the blade and anything else I could learn. Thank you

[rematron]

Hi Thomas,

 

Without being able to see a whole lot of detail in your photographs, what I do see tells me it's a real antique NIHONTO.  It is a WAKIZASHI (short sword).  The TSUKA (handle) has quite a bit of age to it.  

 

edit: This is a KATANA.  I completely misread the tape measure.

 

I am a total novice so I can't speak much more than that.  You will surely get more replies from seasoned members.  They will want some other photographs.  At least one with the TSUKA and HABAKI (blade collar) removed and then photographed with the tip of the sword up in as good as light as possible.

 

And if you can get any detailed/focused images of the edge that would be helpful as well.

 

There will be a pin (MEKUGI) going through the handle, and typically visible on both sides.  Remove that with a widdled down chopstick or something else of similar diameter and not hard as to do any damage.  Be careful not to cut yourself.  Japanese swords stay sharp for a very long time.

 

What we really need to see is the NAKAGO (naked blade handle).  The patina and style of that will possibly give us a better hint of age and school.

 

Best,

Jeremy

[Geraint]

Dear Jeremy.

 

While I too would have guessed that this is a wakizashi at a glance, the tape alongside the blade in the first image suggests a nagasa of something like 27.5 inches.  Not so short as it seems!

Thomas, assuming your tape is in inches then this makes it a katana.

 

Looking forward to some more images.

 

All the best.

[rematron]

Geraint, hahaha. Oops! I saw the red color of the 16" mark and immediately thought that was the 12" mark... Duh.  I guess the seemingly short TSUKA added to the optical illusion.  That's a tad embarrassing.  Yes, totally KATANA. 

[WISDOMSEEKER]

5 hours ago, rematron said:

Hi Thomas,

 

Without being able to see a whole lot of detail in your photographs, what I do see tells me it's a real antique NIHONTO.  It is a WAKIZASHI (short sword).  The TSUKA (handle) has quite a bit of age to it.  

 

edit: This is a KATANA.  I completely misread the tape measure.

 

I am a total novice so I can't speak much more than that.  You will surely get more replies from seasoned members.  They will want some other photographs.  At least one with the TSUKA and HABAKI (blade collar) removed and then photographed with the tip of the sword up in as good as light as possible.

 

And if you can get any detailed/focused images of the edge that would be helpful as well.

 

There will be a pin (MEKUGI) going through the handle, and typically visible on both sides.  Remove that with a widdled down chopstick or something else of similar diameter and not hard as to do any damage.  Be careful not to cut yourself.  Japanese swords stay sharp for a very long time.

 

What we really need to see is the NAKAGO (naked blade handle).  The patina and style of that will possibly give us a better hint of age and school.

 

Best,

Jeremy

 

4 hours ago, Geraint said:

Dear Jeremy.

 

While I too would have guessed that this is a wakizashi at a glance, the tape alongside the blade in the first image suggests a nagasa of something like 27.5 inches.  Not so short as it seems!

Thomas, assuming your tape is in inches then this makes it a katana.

 

Looking forward to some more images.

 

All the best.

 

7 hours ago, WISDOMSEEKER said:

I have this Japanese sword. I would like to discover more about it. I would be interested to know about the handle the blade and anything else I could learn. Thank you

 

[WISDOMSEEKER]

[WISDOMSEEKER]

[John C]

Thomas:

There should be a metal collar here called a fuchi. Did the tsuka come with one?

John C.

[WISDOMSEEKER]

Hi John C this is exactly the condition the sword was in when I got it. I'm wondering also if anyone might know what the inscription or etching on the habaki might translate?

[ROKUJURO]

Thomas,

to help us identifying, please post

-  pictures of the NAKAGO and the 'naked' blade always with tip pointing upwards 

-  photos taken directly from above

-  with light from the side

-  well focused
-  showing details like HAMON, HADA and HATARAKI -  HAMACHI, MUNEMACHI and KISSAKI are important
-  against a dark background to get a good contrast

-  and presented as cut-out so nothing is distracting from the blade itself 

[WISDOMSEEKER]

15 hours ago, WISDOMSEEKER said:

Would anyone have any idea about what this mark would be? It's located on the Habaki?

[ROKUJURO]

Yes, I think it is a craftman's assembly mark, usually not visible under the (now missing) bottom part of the damaged HABAKI. It has nothing to do with the swordsmith nor the owner of the sword.

[WISDOMSEEKER]

3 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

Yes, I think it is a craftman's assembly mark, usually not visible under the (now missing) bottom part of the damaged HABAKI. It has nothing to do with the swordsmith nor the owner of the sword.

Thank you very much for your information. Do you have any idea how old this sword may be? I'm having difficulty removing the handle due to the condition its in.

[ROKUJURO]

Thomas,

it is difficult to say something safe based on your photos. The blade seems to be quite straight (almost no SORI), so this could be a hint to the KANBUN period (April 1661 to September 1673). But we should see photos (taken as recommended above) of the NAKAGO. Removing the TSUKA requires removing the MEKUGI first, so get some information here on the board about how to do it. 

Some sellers/dealers have the NAKAGO glued in the TSUKA to prevent a potential buyer from getting information, so in such a case, you will have to look for other ways to remove the handle without damaging anything. Look for "Removing a stuck TSUKA" or similar.

The TSUBA seems to be o.k.

[WISDOMSEEKER]

Hello, I was able to remove the Tsuka and discovered this. Please if you have any information about these markings or where I should go to find out more I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you

[WISDOMSEEKER]

[xiayang]

Hi Thomas,

 

Your sword was shortened (suriage) by a few centimetres at some point, leaving only a part of the original mei:

 

越中國 = Etchū-no-kuni

[WISDOMSEEKER]

22 minutes ago, xiayang said:

Hi Thomas,

 

Your sword was shortened (suriage) by a few centimetres at some point, leaving only a part of the original mei:

 

越中國 = Etchū-no-kuni

Hi Jan

Thank you for the information about the shortening of my sword. Would you be able to decipher what is there of the Mei?

Would you have any other thoughts about the sword? The age, type or any other insight? Thanks again.

All the best

Tom

[ROKUJURO]

Thomas, did you read that above?

To help us identifying, please post

-  pictures of the NAKAGO and the 'naked' blade always with tip pointing upwards 

-  photos taken directly from above

-  with light from the side

-  well focused
-  showing details like HAMON, HADA and HATARAKI -  HAMACHI, MUNEMACHI and KISSAKI are important
-  against a dark background to get a good contrast

-  and presented as cut-out so nothing is distracting from the blade itself 

And Jan gave you the translation: Etchū-no-kuni  (Province of ETCHU). The name of the swordsmith was cut off, making it difficult to fix a date. Without seeing anything of the work/features in the blade because of the condition, this is not easy. As I wrote above, the blade seems to be quite straight (almost no SORI), so this could be a hint to the KANBUN period (April 1661 to September 1673).

Did you read that?

[WISDOMSEEKER]

Hi Jean

I missed what Jan had posted at first. I appreciate your clarification of his post. I thank you very much. I will post some more photos. Thank you again.

[ROKUJURO]

Thomas,

to help you, we need
 

-  pictures of the NAKAGO and the 'naked' blade always with tip pointing upwards 

-  photos taken directly from above

-  with light from the side

-  well focused
-  showing details like HAMON, HADA and HATARAKI -  HAMACHI, MUNEMACHI and KISSAKI are important
-  against a dark background to get a good contrast

-  and presented as cut-out so nothing is distracting from the blade itself 

 

[Rivkin]

This is an unusually straight, which is usually an argument for the later Edo.

However the signature is written rather crudely, typically if its a minor Etchu smith from shinshinto you do expect the signature to be a bit more consistent and elaborate with near constant pressure.

Its also close to the mune which is not the most typical Edo period's placement.

On the other hand, late Muromachi Uda smiths often used such placement and their signatures are using largish kanji with typically somewhat uneven strokes in both pressure and width, some of which do come out as highly visible triangles (here). The tapering is also more pronounced compared to shinshinto's cane swords or loyalists.

Suspect its end of Muromachi piece which might have been even straightened at some point to get into cane. It is possible to do such things.

[Jacques]

12 hours ago, Rivkin said:

Suspect its end of Muromachi piece which might have been even straightened at some point to get into cane. It is possible to do such things.

I'd love to know the process

[WISDOMSEEKER]

15 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

Thomas,

to help you, we need
 

-  pictures of the NAKAGO and the 'naked' blade always with tip pointing upwards 

-  photos taken directly from above

-  with light from the side

-  well focused
-  showing details like HAMON, HADA and HATARAKI -  HAMACHI, MUNEMACHI and KISSAKI are important
-  against a dark background to get a good contrast

-  and presented as cut-out so nothing is distracting from the blade itself 

 

 

[WISDOMSEEKER]

[WISDOMSEEKER]

[WISDOMSEEKER]

[ROKUJURO]

Thomas,

unfortunately, the condition does not allow to see any features in the blade. This has nothing to do with the sheer number of photos.

And could you please orient the pictures of the NAKAGO and the 'naked' blade always with the tip pointing upwards? 

It would also be nice to have the images presented as cut-out so nothing is distracting from the blade itself 

[WISDOMSEEKER]

34 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said:

Thomas,

unfortunately, the condition does not allow to see any features in the blade. This has nothing to do with the sheer number of photos.

And could you please orient the pictures of the NAKAGO and the 'naked' blade always with the tip pointing upwards? 

It would also be nice to have the images presented as cut-out so nothing is distracting from the blade itself 

Jean,

Thank you, I will position it point upwards and crop the photos.

Tom

[Franco]

Hello,

 

Kanbun Shinto is probably a pretty good bet as far as age goes based upon shape and other factors. Although there is a partial mei that could be used to help track down or at least narrow down the possibilities of who may have made this blade. At least for myself, there may be a more immediate issue that needs attention after looking at these images. The images of this blade at the kissaki end and also towards the habaki raises questions of possible heat exposure. If that is the case, it would render the sword itself a souvenir. Sometimes in such cases the fittings also demonstrate heat damage exposure, but the fittings look to be fine here. 

 

Fire damage to nihonto is not an uncommon problem. Hopefully that is not the case here.

 

Regards