A strange surface of an iron Tsuba

[Rodenbacher]

Gentlemen, I need your help! Some years ago I bought this Tsuba, it was not expensive, but when I held it in my hands, I was really disappointed. At first I thought it was a casted copy, but after some time of studying I can guarantee, it's not. What puzzles me is the strange surface. It's smooth, but there are irregularities I have never seen on a Tsuba before. I don't know, what it is? Remnants of old lacquer? Old paint? A rather bad repatination? 

[Rodenbacher]

Close-ups show the irregularities:

[Rodenbacher]

Another one:

 

[Rodenbacher]

There is at least one of the irregularities, which is clearly a Tekkotsu  - it's very difficult to take a photo of it, but it has the color of Iron, so it's no paint or lacquer:

[Rodenbacher]

Or am I completely mistaken and it's cast? There are no bubbles in the surface, the Sukashi walls show no seams of the casting moulds, the iron rings like a bell, when snapped with a fingernail... I really need your advice. 

[Teimei]

Hi Peter,

 

maybe some kind of fire damage / corrosion problem in the past?

[Brian]

I could be wrong, but looks ok to me. A legit old piece. I don't think tsuba like this were made to be perfectly flat, the imperfections add to the character.

[Bugyotsuji]

Liking the tsuba design. I would go with a couple of your earlier ideas. Much (but not all) of that reminds me of iron kabuto etc., where the lacquer has been subsequently removed.

[goo]

I think its old and the combination of age and perhaps not having been cared for properly during its lifespan before you acquired it have caused the surface and grain in the iron to lift and separate who knows where its been or what its been through.  I think you have a great piece.

[Rodenbacher]

Thanks to all of you for your help and your kind words. 

[Curran]

Legit tsuba.

From the picture of inside the sukashi, I'd guess it to be repatinated.

Probably it had condition issues that were cleaned up, and then repatinated.

 

Take this as the devil's word, but many tsuba are repatinated. Some are incredibly well done. Others are a bit more "dipped".

Believe it or not, many repatinated tsuba get NBTHK papers.

Guido S. would insist it was only to Hozon in the past and No Longer Done according to his NBTHK sources, but I then watched tsuba I know to have been repatinated go on to get Hozon despite Guido's opinion.

 

Repatinations at Tokubetsu Hozon or Juyo?  

Mmmm. Some exist. I had one with TH papers that I learned was repatinated. I also know of at least two Juyo that were repaired and repatinated. I had the pleasure of seeing the before, after, and after Juyo pics.

I'm sorry that Guido isn't around to disagree with me.

 

 

[Tim Evans]

This odd surface looks like it may be from this Japanese tsuba smith. His site is worth checking periodically so you know what the reproductions look like. See the top left image for the odd surface.

 

http://tsubaryuken.com/sono2.html

 

[Spartancrest]

3 hours ago, Tim Evans said:

Japanese tsuba smith

This back yard smith with his production line of oily looking strange surfaced 'look a likes'  https://www.jauce.com/user/dj2hmyuc  some over on ebay as well  https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/386180771020 being sold now by other dealers.

[Rodenbacher]

On 4/5/2024 at 2:18 AM, Tim Evans said:

This odd surface looks like it may be from this Japanese tsuba smith. His site is worth checking periodically so you know what the reproductions look like. See the top left image for the odd surface.

 

http://tsubaryuken.com/sono2.html

 

I can see the similarities, but I can also see the differences in the two Tsuba surfaces. I don't think it's the same maker. 

[ROKUJURO]

To me, it looks like a new TSUBA.

[Rodenbacher]

9 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

To me, it looks like a new TSUBA.

What is the reason for your opinion? I think it would help all of us if you could tell us a bit more. In fact I am really in doubt about the age of this piece and it would help a lot if I could understand your point of view. 

[ROKUJURO]

With pleasure, when I have a bit more time. Actually, I am on the road, travelling home from northern Germany. 

[Rodenbacher]

3 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

With pleasure, when I have a bit more time. Actually, I am on the road, travelling home from northern Germany. 

Just visit me in Frankfurt, so we can meet and you can hold my Tsuba in your hands! 

[ROKUJURO]

Peter,

I like the general design idea of your TSUBA. What puzzles me are some details:

The NAKAGO ANA is not symmetrical, and as all TSUBA masters have a good eye for balance and symmetry, this does not really fit for me. The SEKIGANE are barely fiting into the NAKAGO ANA on one side while they go far into the SEPPA DAI on the other side where they have been pounded flat. In my eyes, this is not elegant and often seen in amateur TSUBA. 

Also, the bird's tail is not symmetrical.

Furthermore, the pronounced TSUCHI ME (visible in photo # 4) is unusual for an older TSUBA, I think.

The TEKKOTSU (or what is probably meant to be TEKKOTSU) is strange in my eyes. They look like traces of welding to me.

Finally, the head of the crane does not look elegant to me.

I may well be wrong on all points, so I would really like to see this TSUBA in hand.  

[Spartancrest]

Several years back I showed a tsuba that was dismissed as not being done by a master craftsman as "No smith would make a seppa-dai so obviously lopsided". However the human eye is not infallible and when I tried simple geometry the discrepancy is minute and most of the off-center look is from the kogai hitsu-ana. Some designs look better with a free hand approach and not rigid symmetry. We should also judge design and symmetry from how the piece would look mounted, that after all is the purpose and intent. JMO

[Rodenbacher]

Thank you both! The Nakago-ana was altered heavily, so it's difficult to judge, if the artist was bad or another smith who altered it. The tail of the bird is not symmetrical, that's right - and the head of the bird isn't very elegant done, these are good points, Jean!

 

But the best argument you mentioned is the strange form of what I called Tekkotsu. I own some Tsuba (Ko-Shoami, Kanayama etc) with real Tekkotsu and they look indeed different. And that's exactly, what concerns me.... 

[OceanoNox]

5 hours ago, Spartancrest said:

We should also judge design and symmetry from how the piece would look mounted, that after all is the purpose and intent.

A very good point, too often forgotten!