How many types of Bokuto available?

[Bugyotsuji]

Every so often someone gives me a Mozoto or a bokuto and I put it on the rack. There seems to be a variety available, but as I do not practice any sword-related martial art I sometimes wonder what the state of the market is?

 

Does each branch of Martial arts hava a different wooden sword thet they alone use? Or are there two or three basic patterns? I have seen bokuto with, and without, a tsuba for example...

 

Has anyone any insight into this area? Thanks

[John A Stuart]

Hi Piers, There are quite a few varieties, most ryu have their own type. If you were to go to Budoshop Ikebukuro Toshima-ken Tokyo, for examples you would find perhaps a dozen types. More upon request. A pretty good fellow there, Yoshiki Kakuta. John

[Bugyotsuji]

Hi Piers, There are quite a few varieties, most ryu have their own type. If you were to go to Budoshop Ikebukuro Toshima-ken Tokyo, for examples you would find perhaps a dozen types. More upon request. A pretty good fellow there, Yoshiki Kakuta. John

 

Ah, it sounds as though there are more than I had imagined. Many thanks John.

 

What triggered off the question was a really nice one with a carved and grooved dark wood 'blade' and black lacquer scabbard that came my way recently. Some Dojo owner used to swear by it apparently. I have three completely different Bokuto now...

[Aloof Pegasus]

Hi Piers

 

A lot depends on whether or not the bokken will come into contact with another bokken during training.

 

If yes then the bokken will usually be stouter and straighter. For example Kashima shin uses a straight bokken or a straight fukuru-shinai. The Kashima bokken is heftier than other bokken and a thick round wooden tsuba protects the hands. There are a few techniques using the tsuba. Additionally in some dojos you may see an old tire sunk in a cement block. This is struck with the bokken in order to practise lowering the hips on impact and avoid having the bokken bounce off the tyre.

 

Generally aiki-bokken, the one used used for aikido (and it's most often Katori shinto ryu) will have some sori and be quite a bit lighter because there is rarely much contact and if there is it's usually glancing. Generally there's no tsuba although individual practitioners may decide to put one on.

 

Jigenryu practise repeated strikes against a variety of training aids like bound branches etc. Typically during an all day session a practitioner may perform 10,000 strikes. There's a lunch break though so it's not all hard work.

 

You will also see bokken which are 3-4 times heavier than a normal bokken called subarito and which are designed to find the shortest route up and down. They also destroy shoulder muscles, and an old dojo maxim says "shoulders are the enemy."

 

Philip

[saipan59]

Another place to look is http://www.bokkenshop.com/eng/ . They ship international, for us Westerners. I bought a few things from them several years ago. Four or five types of wood are available for many styles, and they give some guidelines of what each type of wood is best for. I.e., some are better for contact, others are more intended for "show" or non-contact demos, etc. They have standard shapes, and a bunch of specialized shapes aimed at a particular ryu-ha.

 

I have one made of Macassar ebony that I bought in Tokyo about 20 years ago. It was cheap, probably because the tip was slightly damaged. At the same time I got a really nice iai-to for a bargain price because there was a ding in the saya.

 

Pete

[Bugyotsuji]

Philip and Pete, many thanks for the detailed answers, and that great link, Pete. Quite an eye-opener, not least because the word seems to be "Bokken" rather than bokuto. Not sure where I picked that up! What a variety in purpose, style and material!

[saipan59]

Philip and Pete, many thanks for the detailed answers, and that great link, Pete. Quite an eye-opener, not least because the word seems to be "Bokken" rather than bokuto. Not sure where I picked that up! What a variety in purpose, style and material!

Actually, I think that "bokuto" is a better word to use in most cases. I've found that native speakers use bokuto, and bokken might sound a bit 'foreign'. And bokuto is definitely used by non-martial-arts folks in Japan. If you consider the kanji that are used, bokuto is "wood katana", while bokken is "wood sword (generic)".

In the West, for whatever reason, bokken became the common word.

 

Pete

[Bugyotsuji]

Philip and Pete, many thanks for the detailed answers, and that great link, Pete. Quite an eye-opener, not least because the word seems to be "Bokken" rather than bokuto. Not sure where I picked that up! What a variety in purpose, style and material!

Actually, I think that "bokuto" is a better word to use in most cases. I've found that native speakers use bokuto, and bokken might sound a bit 'foreign'. And bokuto is definitely used by non-martial-arts folks in Japan. If you consider the kanji that are used, bokuto is "wood katana", while bokken is "wood sword (generic)".

In the West, for whatever reason, bokken became the common word.

 

Pete

Hmmm... There are a lot of these subtle differences, it seems. Someone should write a book about them!

[Bugyotsuji]

Just for fun I put these two on a katana-kake to make a Daisho.

 

The rough and ready 'wakizashi/tanto' I bought a few months ago. This looks like a short contact weapon.

 

The rather fine 'katana' with boubi and kissaki in black urushi saya was given to me about a year or two ago, but I cannot imagine it being used to strike anything directly, having much less 'kasane'. (Quote: "It used to belong to a Sensei up north")

[Baka Gaijin]

Good morning Piers,

 

I'm told the Bokuto/Saya combination is used to explain close up points or to illustrate hip/hand coordination.

 

Also available with a plastic saya, it is a cheap and safe way for beginners to train.

 

http://www.bokkenshop.com/Red_Oak_Groov ... set358.htm

 

Oh and by the way, the Bo-hi is there to give the satisfying whoosh.....try it

 

Cheers

[Bugyotsuji]

Excellent reply, Malcolm, thank you... oh, and I just tried the Whooosh outside! :lol:

 

PS Close inspection shows it to be a resin or plastic saya, as you say, and not the urushi nuri that I had thought...

[Baka Gaijin]

Hi Piers,

 

I'm told that the real inner whoosh will only reveal itself when you have hit the 10th suburi.............. on one exhalation

 

Cheers

[sanjuro]

I thought this might help a little with the basic types used by various ryuha.

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Malcolm, well, I did get a faint sort of whoosh... :|

 

Keith, now that is a very useful chart!

[Ken-Hawaii]

Piers, when the heck did you have any time to post on NMB on 5/2?? I thought that Linda & I had kept you busy until quite late! Dinner with you & Noriko was great. I've already sent a detailed e-mail.

 

I'll post photos of some custom bokuto that I use in iaido & jodo...in a couple of days after I recover.

 

Aloha!

 

Ken

[Bugyotsuji]

Ken, after you guys left I got bored... :lol:

[Bugyotsuji]

Today I bought an old somewhat worm-eaten bokuto with a large rusty iron tsuba. Iori mune. Saved from the tip? This can go on the stand with the old tanto bokuto so now the display feels a bit more 'authentic'.

[kusunokimasahige]

These are my bokuto.

 

The top one is of Japanese Oak and the bottom one is Chinese Oak.

 

Both are quite nice in hand.

 

 

 

The thickness of the tsuka and shape of the kissaki vary, which for me is good because different swords/grips have

different feel to them. Also I am of the opinion that the heavier the training equipment is, the easier

and less tiring the handling of the actual weapon will become.

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Mmmm... nice!

[chris covington]

I study an old and famous style of kendo called Kashima Shinden Jikishinkage-ryu. Our first set of kata called Hojo no kata uses a very thick bokuto. Our method of cutting is a bit different than most schools and it generates a great deal of force so normal bokuto won't hold up to training. I was doing the Hojo no kata with a partner at an aikido dojo once and one of the aikido students asked why we use such large bokuto; they use a standard white oak kendo style bokuto for their training. My training partner gave the aikidoka his fat bokuto and took the aikidoka's normal sized one. He then had the aikidoka hold the large bokuto out horizonal and made a straight cut onto it with the kendo style bokuto. When my partner hit the Jikishinkage-ryu bokuto you heard a loud crack and the last 3 inches of the kendo bokuto went sailing into the air landing several feet away. My partner walked over, picked up the tip of the bokuto and handed the aikidoka the two pieces of his kendo bokuto with a smile on his face. (My partner isn't a total jerk thoug, he had a white oak kendo bokuto of higher quality and gave that to the aikido student to replace his broken one. The aikidoka kept the two piece of the busted bokuto as a momento )

 

A related style called Yagyu Shinkage-ryu uses a very thin bokuto. They mostly use shinai (bamboo swords) for kata that have a lot of sword on sword contact. My teacher in Jikishinkage-ryu is also a teacher of Yagyu Shinkage-ryu. Our bokuto are like axe handles and theirs are like toothpicks.

 

We also use a few other types of bokuto. We have a kodachi bokuto which looks like the Hojo bokuto but smaller. It is unusual because it has a long tsuka; we use the kodachi two handed. When we do the Kodachi no kata we use the kodachi bokuto against a standard kendo bokuto. We also use a furibo which is about 5 feet long. It isn't a club or any other type of weapon but a very large bokuto to practice swinging. It teaches us to not cut with the shoulders... if you try to use shoulders to cut you'll injury yourself! Here is a link to someone I know holding one: http://daito-ryu.de/wp-content/uploads/ ... furibo.jpg

 

Best regards,

Chris

[Stephen]

what do you call it when you just use a stick? LOL

 

something to do with Musashi beach find???

[chris covington]

Stephen,

 

what do you call it when you just use a stick? LOL

 

Jigen-ryu! A very famous and powerful sword school from Satsuma.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBp8Dkk7vIs check out around 2:05 for their bokuto (tree branches).

 

Best regards,

Chris

[Stephen]

Thanks Chris

[estcrh]

Every so often someone gives me a Mozoto or a bokuto and I put it on the rack. There seems to be a variety available, but as I do not practice any sword-related martial art I sometimes wonder what the state of the market is?

 

Does each branch of Martial arts hava a different wooden sword thet they alone use? Or are there two or three basic patterns? I have seen bokuto with, and without, a tsuba for example...

 

Has anyone any insight into this area? Thanks

Piers, as far as the market goes I see authentic antique bukuto / bokken for sale occasionally in Japan, I have never seen them any were else, they do not sell cheap considering that they are just wood practice swords. I have seen them from around 48in on down to tanto size, with leather or wood tsuba and with out any tsuba. Here is an image from a previous thread showing various shapes and sizes and an image showing some varieties.

 

 

 

http://japanbujut.exblog.jp/i16

[Bugyotsuji]

Eric, the top illustration is posted earlier in this thread, but Holy Maloney, look at that rack below!

 

Chris, thanks for the link. On their travels through Japan this month, Anthony and Jan from Sweden did some of that in Kagoshima last week.

[Bugyotsuji]

The 'new' one with the iron tsuba looks like a chokuto with a Chu-kissaki, missing the habaki.

 

The other two have roughly the same sori and kissaki, the tanto missing a tsuba.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Now all you have to do is find a martial art that teaches you how to use them, Piers. :lol: Linda & I have our collection of custom-made kodachi & katana that we use in iaido, kendo, & jodo. Check out Kim Taylor's work at http://sdksupplies.com/cat_bokuto.htm - he made us matching weapon sets to our specifications. I've been using my set for over 10 years, & it still looks brand new, & pretty, too, with multiple laminated woods.

 

Ken

[Bugyotsuji]

Fantastic link, Ken. Thanks.

[Toryu2020]

Eric

I am very interested in your photo, I am currently researching a bokuto that looks very much the same as the straight swords on the top of the rack. The large tsuba suggests Ono-ha Itto-ryu would you know if these are associated with any particular ryuha? or would you know which part of Japan they were found in?

any help appreciated,

-t

[Bugyotsuji]

Nothing to do with the price of fish, but here are my toys, freshly patched up, mostly given to me over the years.

 

At left, Kinai at 119 cm

2nd from left, Bokuto at 101 cm

3rd Bokuto at 99 cm

4th Old Bokuto at 92 cm

5th Old Wakizashi Bokuto at 63 cm

 

6th Mozo-to, large at 96 cm overall.

 

No, Ken, I have not trained in how to use them. I hope I would look suitably posed and threatening if some funny guy came to the door.