Nihonto shipment from Japan to Poland banned - Japan please advise.

[2devnul]

Hello everyone,

 

I'm opening this topic as recently I hit the wall when trying to purchase a sword directly from Japan. Order was placed outside of this forum, on Ebay. 

What I heard as reply from seller was a big surprise. It also doesn't make sense if you ask me. Therefore, I want to check with forum users (especially located in Japan) about absurd reply I received from seller. 

 

Apparently real/live swords (I'm talking here about any type of Nihonto, historic or modern, aluminum Iaito is excluded) CAN NOT be send to Poland (EU). For my question why I received info that it is because of the war in Ukraine. Sword is treated in Japan as a weapon, and it is forbidden to send weapons (of any sort, so it is more like red-tape problem, not that Japanese think that we will fight with swords here) to the countries that have border with country in conflict. 

 

Is that really true? Both, ban on sending swords to Poland and reasoning behind it. Please advise and thank you very much for your help. 

[Mark]

are there direct flights by JAL from Japan to Poland?  I think we have discussed this here in the past. It may be a shipper issue and sometimes using another service other than the Post Office might work but sellers may not like that

 

[Mushin]

I once shipped a tango from the U.S. to a collector in Poland and ran into the same problem. We ended up listing the blade on the customs form as an antique kitchen knife. I could imagine, though, that dealers and shippers in Japan might have an issue relabeling a sword because of export permits and requirements. Perhaps you have a friend in Germany or elsewhere that can be used as a transshipment point? Good luck and please let us know how you work out the issue.

[2devnul]

  On 3/13/2024 at 1:09 PM, Mark said:

are there direct flights by JAL from Japan to Poland?  I think we have discussed this here in the past. It may be a shipper issue and sometimes using another service other than the Post Office might work but sellers may not like that

 

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That makes much more sense then "war at Ukraine" excuse. I really found that weapon-ban explanation weird. 

 

 

  On 3/13/2024 at 3:06 PM, Mushin said:

I once shipped a tango from the U.S. to a collector in Poland and ran into the same problem. We ended up listing the blade on the customs form as an antique kitchen knife...

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I never had issues with shipments from USA (including 3 swords). Yes, they do hit customs, but I know how to deal with that. Not a problem. 

The problem here is that seller refused to sell at all, giving this strange explanation as reason. 

 

Maybe someone from Japan (any dealers?) can put more light to this topic? Is it possible to send sword to Poland? 

[Rivkin]

You can ask Polish collectors (there are a few) but generally it can be:

1. Japanese are always afraid of something and use any possible excuse to not do something because "its absolutely forbidden". Often its not.

2. For postal service you need a direct flight from Poland. As I think there are none over Russia, I don't think they exist at all. Closest country with a direct flight is probably Germany or Netherlands. Without direct flights swords are problematic.

3. FEdex and UPS can carry swords but only if a dealer has a special contract with them.

 

[2devnul]

Hi, 

 

@Rivkin thank you for your comments. I'm checking possibilities directly with a dealer from Japan (from our forum). We will see where we stand. I will comment here once I know more. 

 

  On 3/16/2024 at 3:43 AM, Rivkin said:

2. For postal service you need a direct flight from Poland. As I think there are none over Russia, I don't think they exist at all. Closest country with a direct flight is probably Germany or Netherlands. Without direct flights swords are problematic.

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Please note that Poland is much closer to Germany then to Russia. I know that sometimes we are being put in the same bucket as eastern Europe countries, but we are central Europe. I'm almost sure that we have direct (passenger) flights from Warsaw/Poland to Tokyo/Japan. 

 

Anyway, I will share more details once I have them. Could be useful for other folks from this part of Europe. 

 

PS. 1. Japanese are always afraid of something and use any possible excuse to not do something because "its absolutely forbidden". Often its not.
I love that comment! 

[Jon]

  On 3/16/2024 at 9:07 AM, 2devnul said:

Please note that Poland is much closer to Germany then to Russia. I know that sometimes we are being put in the same bucket as eastern Europe countries, but we are central Europe. I'm almost sure that we have direct (passenger) flights from Warsaw/Poland to Tokyo/Japan

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you do have a direct boarder with with the Russian state ( the Kaliningrad oblast)..of all the European states only Lithuanian, Latvia, Estonian, Finland, Norway, Poland and obviously Ukraine  have this unfortunate pleasure…

 

your problem is Japan is profoundly fanatical about its pacifism…and export of weapons is both legally and morally riddled with issues. 
 

I think you have a problem around the rules around export of weapons which can be found in the  2014 defence white paper, material 62 

 

the key bits that relate to your issue are as follows:

 

“Export of "weapons" requires permission from the Minister of Economy, Trade and Industry according to the Foreign Exchange and Foreign Trade Control Act (Act No. 228 of 1940) (Note) and the Export Trade Control Order (Cabinet Order No. 378 of 1949).

(Note) Currently, the Foreign Exchange and Foreign Trade Law.”

Three principles for arms exports

Prime Minister Sato, April 21, 1982, House of Representatives, Settlement Committee

(Summary)

Specifically, the government's operational policy regarding the Foreign Exchange and Foreign Trade Control Act and the Export Trade Control Order clarifies that arms exports are not permitted in the following cases:

1) For communist countries

2) For countries where the distribution of weapons, etc. is prohibited by United Nations resolutions

3) For countries that are parties to international disputes or are at risk of such disputes.

 

Government policy

Regarding the export of "weapons," the government has always been cautious in dealing with the export of "weapons" in order to avoid aggravating international conflicts due to Japan's position as a peaceful nation, and will continue to do so in accordance with the following policy. shall be processed and its export shall not be facilitated.

1) Export of "weapons" is not permitted in areas covered by the Three Principles.

 

Definition of weapon

The term "weapon" is used in various laws and regulations, and its definition should be interpreted according to the purpose of each law, etc.

2) "Weapons" under the Self-Defense Forces Act refer to "firearms, explosives, swords, and other machines, instruments, devices, etc. whose purpose is to directly kill or injure people or destroy property as a means of armed struggle." 

 

 

Basically it could be that businesses in Japan have been advised somehow that “Poland” has been designated as a nation that could be in at risk of international dispute ( conflict)…..and so would come under principle 3…but….I suspect it’s not an official designation as Poland is Member of of NATO and bound to article five as are all members states..including almost every nation in Europe, Canada and the US..so if it was an official ban it would logically have to cover every NATO nation which is essentially the European continent and North American…and Japan has just entered a load of agreements around arms sales and shared development of weapons with the Uk and Italy.

[2devnul]

@Jon thanks for taking the effort in order to find some details about red-tape. So it is possible that war could be the issue here. Logically doesn't make sense, but we all know, that sometimes law has no logic (ban on butterfly knifes in some countries where you can own a hatchet, axe or Katana ...)

 

I'm still waiting for an update from another dealer in Japan.  We will see what will be the reply. 

[Brian]

Not unusual. Those in the arms industry (like myself) have found that flights within Europe are being very heavily controlled. Even those not going over Russia are being restricted in the event that flights are diverted or something (no-one seems to know what) will happen. Once the powers that be mention weapons, it is up to the courier companies to decide for themselves what that constitutes and they tend to overcompensate. It is much easier for them to say no, than say yes and risk some unforseen event.
So yet, it is completely plausible me that courier companies or postal services will refuse anything that is even remotely a weapon if it is within any proximity to a conflict zone.

[Bugyotsuji]

On Wednesday a friend was saying that he was stopped trying to board a Japanese domestic flight from Tokyo because the metal objects in his carry-on bag were questioned. When he explained, the staff asked "Tsuba? What is a tsuba?"

He began to explain...

At that point they threw up their hands, saying "No, sorry, nothing weapons-related is allowed on our flights."

 

My imagination had fun with that one! Shuriken for a Ninja??? 

[2devnul]

Hi,

 

Latest news, shipment from Japan to Poland indeed is banned. I'm not sure about reasoning behind this (different versions) but one is sure, not allowed to ship (at least swords) to Poland. Topic can be closed for the moment. Thank you all for help. 

[Rivkin]

After the war started for a while there were absolutely no direct flights from most EU countries and I had to receive and ship probably a dozen packages for various collectors. Most countries had to use a connect flight through Dubai or something of the sort, sometimes with a stop in Thailand or alike. If one has to fly over Emirates or Thailand one might as well stop on the way, the economics of fly through all the way till Tokyo makes sense only for a very major route...

Even today I suspect unless you are using one of the largest European airports there are no direct flights and shipping anything interesting has its issues. 

I don't know about weapons side of it, knowing Japanese sensitivities it might be an issue, but then again - many EU collectors do suffer or suffered. 

Which helps us the US sellers!

Weapons-related are things like limits imposed on shipping to Poland of large quantities of things like Chinese drones or certain chemicals.

 

[Seiko]

Rules always change. We couldn't ship to Bulgaria and Spain directly from Japan. The good thing is that we have a partner in Belgium so we could import in EU, avoid VAT for customer with a special certificate we have and then ship to final customer wherever in Europe.

[Deiro]

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Latest news, shipment from Japan to Poland indeed is banned. I'm not sure about reasoning behind this (different versions) but one is sure, not allowed to ship (at least swords) to Poland. Topic can be closed for the moment. Thank you all for help. 

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Are there no reputed people on this site who could act as middleman in that case?

 

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avoid VAT for customer with a special certificate

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Damn... that certainly sounds good with how hard taxes suck here.