Seki Stamped Gendaito

[SwordGuyJoe]

All,

Here is a Seki Stamped, NTHK papered, gendaito blade by Kanefusa. Just wanted to post it to bolster some of the previous conversations on numerous posts that stamped blade is never gendaito, but always showato. Never say never: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... SS:US:1123

[loiner1965]

never knew they passed shinsa with a seki or showa stamp on but if this is genuine then i am over the moon

[David Flynn]

From the paper, this appears to be from the NTHK npo and not the Yoshikawa grp. NTHK. Why they have papered a sword with a seki stamp, I don't know. However, the Yoshikawa grp, definately wouldn't.

[Bruno]

Is the NTHK paper authentic?

 

If not, it could explain why a Seki stamped sword passed shinsa...

 

From the pics it is difficult to say if it is a showato or a gendaito.

 

The seller says about KANEFUSA:"He forged both traditionally made gendaito and nontraditionally made showato using mill steel, thus each blade must be judged on its own merits."

 

For those who have the John SLOUGH's Oshigata book, it would be nice to check if KANEFUSA used to forge low, medium or high class gendaito or/and showato. Unless he forged high class gendaito I do not see any reason that this sword really did pass Shinsa.

 

It is just a newbie's thought, so maybe not relevant at all.

 

Regards

[cisco-san]

never knew they passed shinsa with a seki or showa stamp on but if this is genuine then i am over the moon

What do you mean with that - paper NOK or sword not genuine?

[loiner1965]

never knew they passed shinsa with a seki or showa stamp on but if this is genuine then i am over the moon

What do you mean with that - paper NOK or sword not genuine?

sword is genuine ....is it a fake paper

[drbvac]

This comes up once a year and although I agree that the paper is probably what is gimei I do have a gendaito Kanefusa in mounts with a stamp, and Dr. Stein does say they have been papered , maybe after the stamp is removed?

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/kanefusa.htm

[ottou812]

For those who have the John SLOUGH's Oshigata book, it would be nice to check if KANEFUSA used to forge low, medium or high class gendaito or/and showato. Unless he forged high class gendaito I do not see any reason that this sword really did pass Shinsa.

 

Kanefusa (23rd generation) forged medium to high-grade showatp and gendaito according to John Slough's book.

[Austo1]

From the paper, this appears to be from the NTHK npo and not the Yoshikawa grp. NTHK. Why they have papered a sword with a seki stamp, I don't know. However, the Yoshikawa grp, definately wouldn't.

..............................................................................................................................

In response to the above:

I had a 23rd Generation Kanefusa with Seki Stamp removed that was papered by the Yoshikawa NTHK 20 years ago. The sword has probably passed through many new owners hands over the years however I still have a copy of the Kanteisho Certificate dated 3/9/1989. One can clearly see a deep file mark where the stamp used to be. I have often smiled to myself over the years when reading on forums and the like. the argument that no blade with an arsenal stamp would ever receive a paper from any reputable sword organisation.

Regards

Doug

[Bruno]

Any exemples of stamped (removed or not) blades papered by NBTHK instead of NTHK?

 

By reading the previous posts it seems that NTHK may be quite fussy, maybe stamped blades could pass sometine NTHK but not NBTHK?

 

I do not know, just asking....

[loiner1965]

Any exemples of stamped (removed or not) blades papered by NBTHK instead of NTHK?

 

By reading the previous posts it seems that NTHK may be quite fussy, maybe stamped blades could pass sometine NTHK but not NBTHK?

 

I do not know, just asking....

emura made swords pass shinsa i believe.....and nagamitsu ones do too

[SwordGuyJoe]

Have you ever seen an Emura or Nagamitsu (assuming you are talking about Ichihara and not Endo) with a stamp (other than a star for Nagamitsu)? I have not.

[Bruno]

I remember having reading in a book that when showato were traditonnaly polished, in certain cases it was almost impossible to define if they were tradionnaly or non traditional made, even by finest experts.

 

We should maybe remember that 60 years ago, once showato were forged they were most of the time quickly polished(war time polished), so it was easy to determine that they were non traditionaly made. Nowadays, some of these stamped showato(maybe the KANEFUSA is one of them...) are sent to be traditionaly polished by their new owners, that could be an explanation why some of them have passed shinsa(here NTHK).

 

Me to, I have read that some showato with stamp removed has passed shinsa, NTHK and NBTHK.

 

Maybe NBTHK is a little bit more snub than NTHK and refuse every swords with stamped because for them:

 

stamped blade= non traditionaly made (even if it is a fine work), so no paper delivered

non stamped blade= traditionaly made, so could be papered

 

Maybe in the KANEFUSA case, NTHK judged more the quality than the authenticity(tamahagane) whereas NBTHK would have focus only on tamahagane swords and wants to reject every non tamahagane ones.

 

Once again it is only my thoughts.

 

Regards

[loiner1965]

Have you ever seen an Emura or Nagamitsu (assuming you are talking about Ichihara and not Endo) with a stamp (other than a star for Nagamitsu)? I have not.

sure i have seen one ...will have to do a search..............i know he did do some blades with a saka arsenal stamp too