Kantei

[Alex A]

Don't waste your time Colin  Jacques always has an hidden agenda 

[Matsunoki]

27 minutes ago, Jacques D. said:

made a kantei from one of your swords (hada hamon) ? Which one ?

Read what I said. I said you tried to trash one of my swords from images. I did not say you made a kantei.
It was the suriage (probably o-suriage) machi-okuri katana that had a classic Nanbokucho sugata and very strong Yamato characteristics including numerous masame hada-ware etc etc . I’m not having the ridiculous debate again but if you insist I will quote your exact words where you even contradicted yourself, from memory firstly saying it was “new made to look old” then it was “suriage yesterday” then is was “ubu” 

I”m sure you can remember it…..if not I’ll go back and find it.

I believe you  also sent me a couple of offensive private messages and also publicly accused me of not knowing the difference between Art and good craftsmanship …whatever that meant. That one made me smile given I’ve dealt in the finest Japanese art for over 40 years.

Any recollection now?

 

 

 

[Brian]

The personal stuff is wearing really thin. Any further comments that are personal and add nothing to the topic at hand will be deleted, and warnings given. Jacques, you don't know when to quit, do you?

[Jacques D.]

2 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

Read what I said. I said you tried to trash one of my swords from images. I did not say you made a kantei.
It was the suriage (probably o-suriage) machi-okuri katana that had a classic Nanbokucho sugata and very strong Yamato characteristics including numerous masame hada-ware etc etc . I’m not having the ridiculous debate again but if you insist I will quote your exact words where you even contradicted yourself, from memory firstly saying it was “new made to look old” then it was “suriage yesterday” then is was “ubu” 

I”m sure you can remember it…..if not I’ll go back and find it.

I believe you  also sent me a couple of offensive private messages and also publicly accused me of not knowing the difference between Art and good craftsmanship …whatever that meant. That one made me smile given I’ve dealt in the finest Japanese art for over 40 years.

Any recollection now?

 

 

 

I would love to see by myself what i wrote; provide the topic please.

 However, It's not the same thing at all, there are things you can see on photos like mekugi ana and their placement. I'll be clear for the last time: it's impossible to attribute a sword (era school and smith) solely on the basis of photos wich are mostly bad..

 

Brian, I'm attacked, I defend myself and I wait for someone to prove me wrong, I add that I didn't ask for anyone to spoil my topic.

[Alex A]

Attacked

 

You set up a ridiculously impossible Kantei ?, to suit your ego and not for anyone's educational benefit.

 

Just one big contradiction of many

 

You refer to an inch and a quarter of steel like one is mapping the Atlantic ridge

 

The thing about this Hobby Jacques, as well you know. Its difficult to prove someone wrong as much of the time things are about as convincing as an airhostesses smile. 

[Matsunoki]

This is one link where you commented. We continued the same conversation (on the same sword) on another topic which I will look for later. I am NOT prepared to re-debate as I don’t want to get myself banned from the forum.

I will not respond to anything you say.

 

[Jacques D.]

Colin,

 

Thanks for sharing,  as i said, i said absolutely nothing about an era, a school, or a smith. What I did say (machi) is clearly visible in the photos.  So please don't put words in my mouth.

 

Worth reading 

http://www.militaria...articles/Suriage.pdf

[Matsunoki]

 

Jacques

I apologise if you thought I was putting words in your mouth. I would never presume to do that and I never said that you had commented on school/smith. You obviously have knowledge that far outstrips mine but despite me asking several times for your views on the blade rather than just the nakago (the nakago is a wreck) you declined to respond.

So, just to be clear…..these are your actual words on the sword in question including your opinion that’s it’s 20thC and that it is both suriage and ubu depending on which comment I read Please excuse my confusion🙂

I would still be interested if you could ignore the nakago and comment on anything you see in the blade….sugata, hada, hamon, kissaki etc. Yes I know the images are not perfect but they are pretty clear and surely they can tell us something? 

[lonely panet]

well this turned to some weird shitfight quickly.

 

i thought it was good to see a odd ball from a master smith.  lets us all know theres always a exception to the rule

[Jacques D.]

Okay you are putting words in my mouth. You say (hope) this sword is Nanbokucho, and you asked for opinions. I say it's probably recently made due to size of the machi nothing else. I'm not the one who buys things without knowing what they are. I've given my opinion and I'm waiting for someone to prove me wrong. Send it to NBTHK shinsa and we'll see who's right. 

 

In fact, your problem is that you're afraid you've been fooled and you can't accept it.

 

Ended for me

[Matsunoki]

1 hour ago, Jacques D. said:

In fact, your problem is that you're afraid you've been fooled and you can't accept it.

Nope, totally wrong Jacques.You obviously don’t know me.  I dont mind not knowing what it really is. I’m absolutely not afraid I’ve been fooled. I don’t care what it’s worth. My approach is very simple….I buy things that I like and/or that I think are interesting. This blade fitted both criteria for me
….and as for the size of the machi telling us it’s recently made when then nakago is so heavily re-worked including machi-okuri…..that’s a new one on me. Is that a new  Kantei pointer……strong machi=new blade?

Anyway, ended. 

 

16 hours ago, Jacques D. said:

 

 

[GeorgeLuucas]

 

With all due respect, Jacques,
 

You used absolutes like “this sword is not from nambokucho” and “it was made to look like an old one”.
 

The underlined qualifiers imply that you’re certain. A certainty that you simultaneously imply is impossible to gleam from mere photos. Which is a source of confusion.  
 

Are you saying that you can definitively determine or eliminate an age/era from photos, but not the school or smith?  

Sincerely,

-Sam 

 

Attached is a screenshot of the comment in question:

[Jacques D.]

Quote

Are you saying that you can definitively determine or eliminate an age/era from photos, but not the school or smith?  

Quote

 

 

Sugata + measurements help to détermine the era but it's still a gamble . That said, there are many indications that a sword may have been made to resemble an older one.  The thickness of the nakago, the size of the machi, the patina, the shine around the mekugi ana or on the nakago shinogi; the cleanliness of the inside of the "old" mekugi ana. The location of mekugi ana which is often fanciful. The number of mekugi ana is in no way a proof, nakago of the sword below is suriage and has only one mekugi ana whereas the Tomonari I posted on a previous post has several nakago ana and is ubu.
 I've provided a drawing showing the position of the nakago shinogi on a nakago ubu and on a nakago suriage (I've exaggerated the positions of the shinogi of the nakago suriage so that it's easy to understand) which is explanatory enough.  

[Jacques D.]

Here a key point to see if a sword is suriage or not, but it's not the only one (sword actually discussed on another topic)

 

[dkirkpatrick]

Thanks for the kantei Jacques and as always the enlightened conversation.  I didn’t weigh in as I thought I recognized this blade from the Kotetsu/Kiyomaro book and didn’t want to spoil the fun.  
 

Doug

[Jacques D.]

Thank you very much for your honesty, you prove that using books is cheating.