I Think this might be a real sword..

[Meanmonkey777]

I have been reading up and studing. I am wanting to see if I am on the right path for what to look for in a sword. The art work is questionable, but the cloth wrap and blade struck my eye. Feed back? And yes its an Ebay one... I know the 99.99% rule. About .01% are real. And for those of you who saw my last post. I used the link with the same sword, and went after the guy with pay pal. Hopefully they get rid of the Jerk.

[Nobody]

I am sorry it does not look right to me.

[Martin]

nor to me.

I can just advise you not to buy your first swords on ebay (unless you are really sure what it is). When you had the chance to look at real and good blades holding them in your hands (at a sword club or dealer) you will soon know what to look for and how to distinguish a fake from a real sword.

Just my two Euro-Cents

 

cheers,

Martin

[Brian]

I'm pretty sure it's fake.

A higher quality fake..but fake anyways.

The wrap is bad. Those middle diamonds should be even and perfect..not sloppy like this one. The shape of the kogatana is wrong..the fittings are too flashy without the quality. The temper line shows no hataraki (features in nie and nioi) and I bet the tip gives it away too.

The nakago is wrong, and shows no age..the mei is sloppy.

Closer...but no cigar

Good for you to ask first though. Remember that if it is out of China...there is little chance you are going to find the exception to the rule.

 

Regards,

Brian

 

Edit to add - I am going to ask you to please sign your posts with initial and surname or vice versa as per the rules. I really don't want to address you as meanmonkey

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

A nice work on the saya (in the visible part) for such a fake...

[sencho]

Definite fake..... another dremel mei I think....

 

When I look on ebay I have the country of sale on the search list and I just bypass anything saying china or hong kong.... There is also a couple of sellers in the USA and in Australia also selling the chinese rubbish...

 

Here is an ebay seller that sells real swords, and he is an honest guy.....

 

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrp ... FSQ3aMESOI

 

He usually says on his sales what is good and what is junk. He will offer and inspection period where you can return the sword if not satisfied.... sometimes he even lets people go round and inspect swords before the bidding has ended, so they can decide whether to bid.....

 

Otherwise forget ebay and go with one of the reputable dealers like Moses Becerra http://www.nihontoantiques.com .... or look at the commercial links at the top of this page....

[sencho]

Meanmonkey...

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/19TH-SHARP-blade-CO ... dZViewItem

 

Here is another fake .... notice the Kozuka....... identical to the one you pictured..... IN MY OPINION AND NOT AN OPINION OF THIS BOARD... all of this guys inventory is fake... beware as he states that it is all original....

 

Many of these sellers use descriptions copied directly from Rich Steins website

[Stephen]

refining your search helps lot like the Skipper said...

 

Search Options

change location

and to cut down on all $1.95 starts go to the bottom and place a price range ...i usually do 150 to 1500 saves a lot of hits on junk.

[Meanmonkey777]

Thank you, everyone. I am new at this, and still am trying to pin down what to be looking for.

 

Thank you,

 

John DeHaven

 

By the way, the mean monkey, refers to the "evil monkey" from the TV show the Family Guy. I have a custom rear window sticker of it on my 72 chevelle SS. For any of you car people out there.

 

Thanks again!

[Somin]

After looking at this sword, another new guy wants to know:

 

Are seppa more or less common on true nihonto ? Also, is the existence of two seppa versus one indicative of anything ?

 

Thanks,

Pez

[sencho]

not that I know of, Pez...

 

I have two seppa on each one of my nihonto in koshirae..... I don't pay them much attention at all to tell you the truth.... When I look at swords on ebay I do not even look at seppa.... and most real nihonto dealers will not even bother showing them in my experience.... I'd be interested if the experienced guys would say any different...

 

I would concentrate on the mei/nakago, the hamon and a true and clear yokote, to determine real nihonto (see link below).

 

I have always found tsuba and fuchi kashira more difficult (mainly because I have been concentrating on the blades), but now the obvious fakes stand out to me like a sore thumb!!....

 

Realise that I was where you are 1 year ago and did not know my arse from my elbow.... (and if you ask Bungo, I still don't!!!)

 

get your head into this website....

 

http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/glossary.htm

 

actually that is the glossary and sword parts page.... but bookmark this site..... I refer back to it every few days religously...

 

Lastly... keep asking questions.... !!

 

Cheers

[sencho]

not that I know of, Pez...

 

Beg your pardon.... that was the answer to your second question, Pez.... the first question.... "yes."

[Somin]

Thanks for the info...

 

I have noticed over time that you hardly ever see seppa shown in photos or mentioned in articles, etc.. Just wondered if they are evaluated or considered in any way by collectors ?

 

I am going to do some back tracking as I thought I had read somewhere that one seppa on a certain side of the tsuba was more common on a certain mounting ??

 

I'll see if I can find where I read it...

 

Hey Brian, how would I start a SEPPA MESSAGE BOARD

 

Pez

[John A Stuart]

Hi Somin, There are a few different types of seppa that range from quite plain to highly worked, including the keyfret design (here we go again). They are found in sets of two or four. Some sets of four use a contrasting set of pairs. They are usually brass but silver is common and other soft metals appear from time to time. John

[Guido]

They are usually brass but silver is common and other soft metals appear from time to time.

Hmmm, virtually all Seppa I ever saw / handled were made of copper and gold plated. A very few were silver plated, and some not plated at all or overlaid with gold foil. This makes sense inasmuch the Seppa act as kind of a "buffer" between Habaki and Tsuba / Fuchi and Tsuba, where the soft (and cheap) copper would be preferred over other metals.

[John A Stuart]

Hi Guido, I include a pic of some seppa I have. I forgot to mention the copper and foiled ones but also the steel ones found on Gunto. In the pic in the upper left corner are seppa purchased from a Japanese company to replace worn ones, on the upper right an older set. The bottom set is a contrasting set and the gunto set on the bottom left is steel. These are mostly brass. John

[pcfarrar]

I have a sword in its original edo period koshirae and it has a single soft metal seppa. All the fittings match and are made from the same soft metal, including the saya fittings. Presumably all the fittings were made at the same time by the same person.

[Guido]

John, I know next to nothing about Guntô, but would be surprised if the Seppa were made of steel - hard to work with, and ineffective when it comes to their purpose. Also, modern replacement Seppa are for sure made out of copper, Namikawa - who probably has the widest selection of restauration items - doesn't sell anything else.

 

Anyhow, I looked the topic up in some books of mine, and they all say that Seppa are made of copper. Here's a quote from the only English lanuage source that I could find, B.W. Robinson's "The Arts of the Japanese Sword":

The Seppa, or washers, are a pair of oval metal plates encircling the tang on either side of the guard. Almost invariably of copper, plain, gilt, silvered, or loosely overlaid with gold or silver foil, on their outer surfaces they may be plainly polished or covered with light striations; their edges are usually milled or crenellated.

But if you *really* want to be sure, there's a way to find out ...

[Bungo]

Hi Peter of UK,

If not too much trouble , can you show more pics of the fuchi ( and the rest of the koshirae ) , it looks very good and i can imagine what's it's like with the tsuba if it matches.............

 

if you already posted the pics previously in other " threads ", accept my apology. We ole folks tend to be forgetful sometimes.............

 

milt The ronin

[pcfarrar]

Hi Milt,

 

These are the only pictures I have to hand at the moment. Someone told me once who made it but I've forgotten.

 

Peter

[John A Stuart]

Hi Guido, I shall not belabour the point but I shall add a point or two. The gunto seppa are steel for sure, as they are highly magnetic. I do not collect gunto per say but have one just as a representative example, like the kaigunto I have that has the traditional European leather washer. I don't know if it was a later ww II saving copper thing or not. It wouldn't be a good shock absorber. The seppa that are new are from Namikawa, I know they are gold plated but did not know the core metal. The foil covered seppa I have definitely are copper inside, one is delaminating fairly bad. That set of black and brass seppa really are brass with the one being chemically blackened. Those were placed by a restorer and maybe they aren't traditional?? I have another sword that has a solid siver habaki that has some kind of alloy seppa that is bleeding into the silver. I can not get the tsuka off that one. Anyhow, thats what I have run into. John