Strange sword

[Rich S]

Check out the sword at:

 

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3027

 

Seems original, but I've no idea what it is or who it may

have been issued to (maybe forestry official???)

 

Rich S

[Stephen]

Rich...maybe he was a imperial gardener?? :?

[Brian]

Well..that is an odd one. I haven't seen anything like it before. Looks like the scabbard has a fireman's hook on it..similar to the tobikuchi. Perhaps it was used by firemen during the war and the blade is a wood saw used to cut through buildings during or after a fire?

Take a look at this link..and compare the projection.

http://www.e-budokai.com/collection/tobikuchi.htm

 

Very interesting item Rich.

 

Brian

[Rich T]

some sort of jungle tool ?, it would obviously work as a weapon, but I can see it being used in the jungle for maybe splitting and cutting bamboo and the likes.

 

just a thought.

 

Rich

[uwe]

Hi Rich,

 

and all the others on board.

During discovering the new board, I found your interesting post. In my opinion, the "sword" looks like an engineers (sapper) tool, according to a european pattern called "Faschinenmesser"!

Only my 2 cents.....

Uwe

 

BTW: feels good to be back again

[Nobody]

I have different opinion from yours.

 

I think the Koshirae of the strange sword is of old Naval dirk. The following web page shows some Naval dirks from Meiji to the end of the WWII. The 6th dirk on the page looks like the Koshirae in question.

 

http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~t-ohmura/gunto_056.htm

 

Because the Naval dirks were formal outfits for officers, it is hard to understand that the Koshirae holds very practical tools such as saw or Tobiguchi. My opinion is that some one remodeled a Koshirae of an old Naval dirk and attached a saw and a Tobiguchi for his private interest.

[Brian]

I was intrigued..so I did some reading through Fuller and Gregory. This pommel shape differs from the Navy dirks, and there are other differences, so I would count that out.

The shape of the brass pommel and backstrap matches the fire bureau dirks almost exactly. But they have more decoration on the backstrap. There is a star badge on the back of the pommel that also leads to Police or Fire depts. (see more photos at the original link)

The fire bureau dirks seem to have had a press fit retention system on the ones pictured, but that is not to say all the variations are pictured in the book. The other one that matches is the Police dirk - junior officers. This is similar to the fire bureau dirk, but uses a button retention system. The senior officers police dirk has extensive decoration on the backstrap, while the junior officer's has less decoration, but retains that star badge. So my conclusion is some modified junior officers police dirk, although my gut feel is that it is indeed a seldom seen variation from the fire bureau. It would tie in with the blade and tobikuchi.

Not Nihonto..but interesting none the less.

 

Brian

[Nobody]

I admit that it was not necessarily a Naval dirk. It might be a dirk of Police, Fire, or Forest depts.

 

However, my point is that it does not seem to be an original dirk to me. Because the dirks were usually formal outfits for officers, I still feel that it is strange to be equiped with saw and tobiguchi in the style.

[Nobody]

The seller does not seem to know much about the item.

 

http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r27802179

[Brian]

Good find

Will be interesting to see what it goes for.

So to be registered in Japan..it would have to have a mekugi ana and a sharp cutting edge? I assume this blade is just a thin saw blade without a straight cutting edge?

 

Brian

[Nobody]

Hi Brian,

As far as the photos show, it seems to be only a thin saw without cutting edge. So naturally, I think that it has not been registered and it is not necessary to be registered, because a saw is not a weapon but a tool.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

The fact the hook is a folding one make me thinking that it might

has been engeenered this way under who knows which authoritie's

specifics, so IMHO no do-it-yourself or field re-shaping.

Anybody out there has experience in naval tools from the tourning of ther century "sails" era ? The hint of the naval mounting for officer is still intriguing, even if fireman's tool seems the most logical.