Recent find - Ujinobu?

[Fusilier]

G'day Guy's,

 

I recently purchased the attached sword after a lady in Surfside (NSW) left a 'Sword for Sale' post it at the local IGA store !!  The photo attached to the ad was pretty poor and at first I thought it was probably a modern replica, but worth a look as she was quite literally around the corner from me.  As soon as I saw it, it was obvious it was genuine and it had an old photo attached with the words "No.2 c 1500 UJINOBU.  We agreed a price and I now have a new sword that I'll be listing to sell.  I was hoping that you guys might be able to confirm the information on the photograph matches that on the sword and the mei on the Tsuba.  Hopefully, this time, I've got the photo's the right way around.  Let me know if there is anything else you need.  As for provenance, she knew almost nothing about the sword, it had belonged to her now deceased husband who she thought had been given it by an uncle.  Thanks for any information you can provide.

[ROKUJURO]

David,

I cannot tell you much about the blade as I have no books to look it up. The looks of the NAKAGO let me believe it is authentic and probably SHINTO era.
The TSUBA is a cast copy (rather new) and of no value to collectors. 

[Fusilier]

Cheers Jean, Hopefully the blade isn't a copy, thanks for the info.

[cju777]

Can’t help on the tsuba.
 

On the blade, the kanji do look like Ujinobu, 氏信. There are a couple out there but you’ll need to find Mei references:

This is a papered Ujinobu (last two towards the bottom), early Shinto, but the Mei style looks very different:

 

 

[Fusilier]

G'day Chris and thanks so much for that. Where and how do I compare the Mei?

 

And lastly, would have you any idea what the mei on the Tsuba say?  Jean has informed me that its a casting but I'm still interested to find out what the mei say.

 

Cheers David

[uwe]

I think the Tsuba is inscribed “西陣住埋忠” (Nishijin jū Umetada). So pretends to be a work of the Umetada school…

[Shugyosha]

Hi David,

The signature on the tsuba reads:

西陣住 - Nishijin Juu - residing at Nishijin (a district of Kyoto)

埋忠 - Umetada ("Maker's" name)

Nice score with the blade!

 

Doh - Uwe beat me to it.

[Fusilier]

Thanks Uwe, John, 

 

That's really interesting, so if I've understood correctly, the Tsuba is a cast copy of an original one made by the Umetada school.  How recently made would this Tsuba be, the reason I ask is that the lady I purchased it from told me that the sword had been given to her husband by his Uncle years ago, and that her husband died nearly 10 years ago.  I'd be surprised if its as recent as that but then again, stranger things happen at sea !!

 

I'm glad that Jean thinks the blade is genuine but may I ask; do either of you have an opinion on the authenticity of the blade or its age?

 

Cheers David

[Fusilier]

I've attached a few more images and hope that helps.

[Fusilier]

[Shugyosha]

Hi David,

I don't know about the tsuba, cast knock-offs have been around for some time now but I'd guess within the last 20 years. What occasionally happens is that a sword mounted in fittings has a good tsuba (or other parts) and they get stripped out and sold separately as they can make the seller more money than as part of the package. Normally they get replaced with a lower-value genuine item but maybe this one just happened to fit.

 

As regards the blade, from what I can see from the pictures I'd say that it was a genuine Japanese sword and that it's not out of keeping with being by one of the smiths signing with a two character signature listed by Chris. The long slanting file marks on the tang point towards it being made by a smith working in Mino province and the patina on the tang is in line with an age of 1500s to early 1600s.

 

The only slight reservation I have is that I can't see much detail so if you're able to take some close ups of the hardened edge, any activity above that and the tip, that would be great. Also a full length shot with all of the fittings taken off and the dimensions will help.

[Shugyosha]

Hi David,

You read my mind.

It looks like the fittings on the handle apart from the tsuba are genuine. The handle has had a re-wrap but underneath that the ray skin and wood are old and authentic, if I'm honest I'm not sure about the scabbard itself at the moment as the metal fittings on that don't quite seem right but again some close up pictures will help.

 

There's nothing there to change my view of the blade but it might be that the fittings are a "put together" set rather then being made for the blade itself - another thing that dealers do to sell swords.

 

Just a word of warning, don't be tempted to clean the blade and particularly don't clean the tang - the patina there is an indicator of the blade's age and should be left as it is. An out of polish blade with good geometry and no scratch marks or marks from other abrasive action is worth more than one trashed by a well-meaning renovation (sorry if I'm telling you what you already know). If you're climate there is quite humid, I'd be tempted to wipe the blade above the tang over with a little fine mineral oil on a soft cloth but don't do anything further.

 

If it helps, there's a guy called Andrew Ickeringill down near Melbourne I believe who is a qualified sword polisher and will give you an appraisal of the blade if you want a professional's eye cast over it.

 

https://touken-togishi.com/

[Fusilier]

Thanks John,

 

I'll get some pictures of the blade with fittings removed when I get home tomorrow. Thanks for the advice wrt cleaning which is always welcome and acts as a good reminder, I'll give it a wipe over as even though I intend selling it, I'd not want to be responsible for something that old being damaged while its in my hands.  I do have some photos of the saya and the blade and I'll upload those here:

[Matsunoki]

Photos still not great but the fittings excl the tsuba look like en-suite iron Han-dachi mountings. Double habaki looks old. Saya looks old with ishime black urushi. Blade looks like it’s had an acid clean-up sadly. Someone swapped the tsuba at some point. A genuine old sword that’s been a bit “got at”?

 

[Fusilier]

G'day Colin, 

 

Thanks for your information, I'm most grateful.  Unfortunately, I had to reduce the size of the JPG files for the system to accept them, the original pics are much better quality but the max file size limit prevents me from uploading them. I've attached the two smallest files I have that have not been reduced.

 

I realise that I'm probably asking you an impossible question here, but when would the acid cleanup on the sword, you suspect has been done, have happened?  The reason I ask is that the lady from who I purchased it really didn't strike me as someone who would have had that done and her husband died a decade ago after being given the sword by a relative long before that.  If I assume (conscious of what the first three letters of that word spell) that adds up to at least 20 and probably more years, is it possible that the "got at" happened in the 1980's or 90's?. 

[Fusilier]

G'day Colin, John,

 

Pictures attached as requested.

[Matsunoki]

Hi David

I’m not sure what was happening in the Oz sword world in 80s or 90s but certainly in the UK during that time we had a few “restorers” who used acid (I wasn’t one of them!!!). Sadly some still do. Back then there were precious few polishers and precious little widespread knowledge or understanding so many swords suffered at the hands of mis-informed (but often very enthusiastic) diy practitioners! Maybe it was the same down under?

 

[Shugyosha]

Hi David,

Sorry, I'm late on parade today. As Colin says, acid polishes have been around for a while but it is a genuine and old blade. I bought my first blade circa 2002 - 2003 and there were a bunch of blades at that shop that had been touched up with acid. Indeed, a little later when I approached a UK polisher, now not working, about having a blade touched up he asked me if I wanted an acid polish or something more traditional. I ran away.

 

I guess you need to think about what you want to do with the blade, sell it as is or see if you can have it restored cheaply to a traditional polish. I think it would perhaps be worth having someone run their eye over it as there are a couple of smiths listed in Chris's post above who are highly ranked and that will (should) influence how you price the blade ultimately. It might be worth dropping Andrew Ickeringill an email to see if he can give you his opinion from the photographs.

 

An alternative to selling direct to a collector would be to sell to an Aussie dealer and make it his problem but he'll mark you down on the price as he needs to make his margin. There's this guy who is up in Cairns: https://nihonto.com.au/

[Fusilier]

G'day Guy's,  Thanks so much to both of you for your advice and support and to Uwe, Colin and Jean.  Invaluable and informative in equal measure, you fella's are the real deal.  Cheers David

[O koumori]

Hello David,

Pending your decision on restoration, please oil the blade and keep it off of surfaces that can cause further damage, like coolers and tires.

Just some friendly advice from a collector dedicated to preservation...

Cheers,

Dan K

[Fusilier]

Cheers Dan, WILCO.