Identify artist signature.

[jason_mazzy]

Good evening, I have a request for assistance. 清郎 Seijuro 白原 Shirahara is what I had, Tom Helm said possibly 白厲 Hakurai, neither name appears in the Haynes index. Is anyone able to find this signature elsewhere, perhaps Wakayama volume?

[Franco D]

One reason there may be difficulty finding the mei (in older texts/references) could be that this set at least to my eyes doesn't appear to be old.

But, I could be completely wrong. Apologies if so.

 

Regards,

[Brian]

I saw these on FB, and must say, I find them superb. They really are stunning. And some of the best pics I've seen showing all the fine details. Congrats on owning these Jason. Glad you shared them here.

[jason_mazzy]

1 hour ago, Brian said:

I saw these on FB, and must say, I find them superb. They really are stunning. And some of the best pics I've seen showing all the fine details. Congrats on owning these Jason. Glad you shared them here.

 

Thank you Brian for the kind words. There are pictures from myself and Artur Drogamiecza on the page. His photos are always well done. I am hopeful to find out who the artist is whether Edo or Gendai. The work is quite superb. 

[Franco D]

 

 

15 hours ago, jason_mazzy said:

I am hopeful to find out who the artist is whether Edo or Gendai. The work is quite superb. 

 

Dear Jason, Gents,

 

Please forgive me ahead of time for what I'm about to write.

 

However, I feel that I must. 

 

Detailed, yes! Superb, yes, ...., yes, ...., yes, ....., yes !

But that is also the reason for at least some of my concern here. 

In fact, you could say that this set almost looks too good.

And at least in the way I have been taught, that raises a caution flag. 

This set, at least to me, and again, I could be wrong, looks recently made. 

Recently made as in 'new', not Koto, not Edo, not even Gendai.

Which makes me, too, want to know who, what, where, when, how?

While 'old menuki' can be carefully polished and restored to look new, the 'old' does not completely go away. 

It would take a great deal of serious work and materials to replicate an 'old' 'new' set.

In fact, while I know that it could be done. The expense would make going out and shopping for a genuine old set make much more sense.

So, when I see a new set it makes me take a step back.

 

Caution flag questions:

Is this gold solid?

Is this gold foil?

Is this gold uttori?

Is this gold maki-e?

What is the solid dark/black on the backs?

Why do these menuki not show any age?

Why is the detail so crisp, precise?

Are we going to see another same exact set?

 

Please, I hope, that all of these concerns/issues/questions can be explained.

 

Looking forward to all replies. 

 

Collect what you like, but know what you collect.

 

We have now entered into an age where delusion/illusions are having their own delusions/illusions.

 

Regards,

 

 

"Desire is the cause of suffering."

 

[jason_mazzy]

I believe the black is a type of pitch used in metalworking. I have several old sets that still have the pitch in the form. Often you'll find menuki with most of the pitch carved out, sometimes there is a signature under the pitch other times not. When I watch metalworking videos it is seen throughout the carving and shaping as the item is stuck in place, heat is then used to relieve the piece when completed.

 

To the age, I don't care if they are recent as many fine contemporary works are currently being made. There was a recent peacock kozuka handle made last year by a new artist that took a very high award and the piece sold for around 20,000 euro/dollars. I currently follow the artist and he is currently making a matching version for submission again. 

 

I do not have an XRF gold x-ray, but by weight for size, they appear to be solid gold. 

 

The rest is unknown, it was purchased based on the perceived quality, and my research has ended up short on the artist. 

[Franco D]

Thank you for responding.

 

Regards

[jason_mazzy]

Thank you for your interest and thought exercise. 

[Bugyotsuji]

The original sale site says they are gold-plated solid silver.

"Menuki ShiShi, signed 白原 清十郎, SroharaSeijyurou, Shirahara sei jūrō, about 36 mm each, solid pure silver + gold plated 24 K, box included."

 

Menuki ShiShi, 白原 清十郎, SroharaSeijyurou, Shirahara sei jūrō 36 mm MX120505 | eBay

[jason_mazzy]

The original seller was not sure. It was Artur Drigamiecza from Poland. I believe he is on this page also. We spoke about them, he was unsure of composition, states a jeweler friend thought they might be silver base.  By my weight and comparison to other solid gold that I have they are comparable.  

[Franco D]

16 hours ago, jason_mazzy said:

Thank you for your interest and thought exercise. 

 

In the pursuit of excellence ..... .