Oiling

[katonk66]

Hello everyone. Just a few question on "proper" oiling of the nihontou:1)What type of material do you use to apply the oil? 2)How do you properly remove the excess oil, and how do you know the aforementioned has been accomplished correctly.

 

I have the all of the bells and whistles for nihontou care, just some of the details I need to clear up.

 

Thank you.

[Cola]

There are care kits available that contain all the required materials;

Nugui paper and an uchiko ball are traditionally used to wipe off old oil without scratching the surface and a spongy oil cloth with a drop of choji oil to apply the oil.

I recommend checking some youtube videos of people doing their care routine.

[ROKUJURO]

If you read about sword care, you will find different methods and opinions. Traditionally, the oil (I use TSUBAKI oil, others use a mixture of low-viscosity mineral oil with some drops of clove oil (= CHÔJI oil) is applied with special Japanese paper (NUGUI) and removed the same way. The fine rest of the oil is removed with UCHIKO powder. As the latter has an abrasive effect that can lead to changes in the polish, it is not longer recommended on blades in good polish. Instead, many collectors use isopropylic alcohol (99,9 %) to remove the oil.

However you proceed, it is important that no oil is left on the blade when it is resheathed. Oil contamination of the wood (especially of the SHIRA SAYA) would cause it to loose its capacity to absorb moisture. It will no longer protect the blade from rust, instead, the oil will mix with dust and, in the long range, turn into a grinding paste. Scratches on the blade would be the result. 

[Brian]

Use Isopropyl alcohol to remove old oil. Take your tsubaki oil or whatever oil you are using, and spray 2 or 3 spurts onto a soft clean tissue that is folded. Or a few drops. Wipe blade in one direction. Done.
No visible drops should remain. Just a clean and ever so slightly oiled blade. That's all you need. I never apply the oil to the blade, just a little on tissue.

[Matsunoki]

14 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said:

How ever you proceed, it is important that no oil is left on the blade when it is resheathed.

Jean, I was amazed to read this. I thought it was essential to leave a very thin coating of oil on the blade. Not enough to cause droplets to form. In humid climes the saya wood can indeed absorb moisture and the only thing that protects the blade is the oil.

 

[Matsunoki]

…..and another thing about oiling. There is a right and a wrong way to wipe it.

Many on here have talked about how using uchiko can cause scratches. Hmmmm there is another district possibility.

It is very easy for dust and rust particles (from the nakago) to accumulate under the habaki. If you start your wipe from that area (under the habaki) you can very easily drag rust particles all along your blade with horrify results…..longitudinal scratches.

The correct way is to start your wipe about two inches above the habaki and wipe towards the nakago but not onto the nakago. Then take a clean wipe or whatever you use, again start two inches above the habaki area and wipe the length of the blade. 
That way you have no chance of dragging contaminates…rust etc…along the blade.

I was told this by a mukansa polisher eons ago.

[ROKUJURO]

Colin,

as I wrote, there are different methods and opinions. I have described what I was taught and how I do the care. A good SHIRA-SAYA is almost air-tight and made in a way that almost no air is around the blade. Even in Japanese climate, this is sufficient in case you practice a regular control.

Besides that, a low-viscosity oil with good "creeping" capacities can adhere in the minuscule 'recesses' that are what we see as HADA. That seems to be enough protection.

[ROKUJURO]

Colin,

that sounds like a very good advice!

[Matsunoki]

8 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said:

A good SHIRA-SAYA is almost air-tight

Maybe Jean but a high proportion of blades are not stored in shirasaya and old koshirae are far from airtight. Also the wood of a shirasaya can expand and contract according to temperature and humidity variations. I have some that at times are quite loose yet another time are a devil to actually withdraw the blade.

[GeorgeLuucas]

To add a bit to an already interesting discussion:

I use microfiber cloths. I used to use a brand called microdeer, but they're no longer available.

So I use clean microfiber cloth that would typically be used for eyeglasses.

Good advice, as always, from Colin, Jean and Brian 
Best of luck,
-Sam

[Cola]

I know I'm going to cause great consternation, and deeply insult a lot of people by asking this. I'm asking out of curiosity, but I apologize beforehand nonetheless.

Why is oil used to protect swords against rust, instead of more permanent dry coating methods such as wax?

I can imagine some advantages of wax coating over oil as it won't get absorbed by wood and is probably more durable. 

[ROKUJURO]

Carlo,

the protective layer formed by a well suited oil is very different from a wax layer. Wax as a micro-crystalline substance is not air-tight and has no "creeping" properties. You could have an air-tight wax layer if it was thick enough (probably a few millimeters), but would you like the looks of that on your blade? 

Having said that, there are many oils which are not usable for steel protection as they lack the properties of forming a thin layer without 'contracting' and forming droplets  

[Stephen]

First image is the preferred oil now days. Keep the cloth use the rust remove eraser for your kitchen knife. 

If you buy choji oil make sure it's not the kind for bonsai tools. It's as thick as motor oil. NO GOOD

Second image is the type of ball NOT TO BUY!!!  Known to scratch blade. Unless you have a blade out of polish and cloudy it's best to pass on using the powder ball. If you have to have the best get Bob Bensons.

 

YouTube is a minefield of good intent but bad info. Be careful. 

[Alex A]

My advive

 

Dont use Choji oil, use a decent gun oil (as backed up by Aoi Art, they should know, see below)

 

Dont use Alcohol. Wiping an old thin oil film off, not maple syrup or the like. Maybe you guys need Alcohol because you are using choji, dunno.

 

Just use soft cloths.

 

 

"Special notes ;

1. Generally, Choji oil has been used to treat Japanese swords. This is a sticky vegetable oil traditionally used in cleaning swords. It promotes oxidization of the blade that will result in rust in the future. In our opinion, and based on our experience, we do not advise you to use Chyoji oil. We suggest that you use high-quality machine oil on your sword. This is the same type used when maintaining guns or sewing machines, and it is the only oil that we use with our swords at Aoi Art."

 

 

[Stephen]

3 hours ago, Alex A said:

We suggest that you use high-quality machine oil on your sword.

That's different from a video he had on maintaining a sword, the oil was tsubaki

Like this.

 

KUROBARA 100% Pure Tsubaki Japanese Knife Maintenance Camellia Oil (3.4 oz) https://a.co/d/hZdZWqq

[Alex A]

I dunno Stephen.

 

Its an horses for courses thing

 

My personal take on this is that there are better modern oils

 

For me, its akin to cooking with lard lol

[GeorgeLuucas]

58 minutes ago, Alex A said:

My personal take on this is that there are better modern oils

 

For me, its akin to cooking with lard lol

I’ve heard similar advice before from experienced collectors, and would like to try a good machine oil myself. Would you mind sharing what kind you use? 

 

I have both a high quality choji oil from Bob Benson, and also the oil from Stephens photos. I prefer Stephens recommendation, and like the cloth it comes with. And because the smell of choji oil reminds me of dental procedures  

 

Cheers,

-Sam

[Alex A]

Hi Sam, used a tiny amount of Parker Hale Express gun oil since i started collecting, no issues.

[Stephen]

Whatever you do don't use straight clove oil it will turn your steel blue.

[Stephen]

What is yous guys thoughts on using this on your swords tosogu koshirae?

 

Silicon Gun Cloth 3PCS 12'' ×12'' Gun Cleaning Cloths Lint Free Gun Cloth - Gun Cleaning Wipes with Silicon Gray Gun Cleaning Rags for Gun Cleaning/Polishing Silicon Rags https://a.co/d/hpmXx7o

[atm]

I’ve been using Singer machine oil: Link It is lightweight and spreads easily.

[Mark S.]

So, I hope the OP will not mind, nor consider this a hijack.  If so, I will delete.  Several members who live in dry climates or have climate controlled storage say they leave their blades un-oiled.  My question is, even if they do not get rust, do they risk oxidation ‘dulling or grey-ing’ by leaving the metal bare (assuming blade is in shirasaya) or is this practice safe if they are not experiencing rusting?  Just curious.  

[Stephen]

I'd guess it depends on how many time one takes it out and expose to the elements. 

 

Mine come out twice a year, I probably could do it once,  I have the wipe coming and one blade will be my test monkey.  We'll see how it goes.