Edo period Morie

[Cola]

 

 

This is the signature on a wakizashi that is from the edo period (or later). 

According to the seller, who is Japanese, the signature reads 守家 Moriie.

So I looked up this smith on the index on nihontoclub, but that only shows much older smiths:

 

Are there any other places where I can look to find some more info on this signature?

 

 

[Gakusee]

Have you consulted Markus Sesko’s book on swordsmiths? Best to go on his website and purchase the electronic copy if you have not got it. 
I personally prefer Markus’s anthology to Hawley but people often refer to Hawley too. 

[Bugyotsuji]

How do you know that the wakizashi is "from the Edo Period (or later)"?

[Cola]

  On 2/14/2024 at 11:03 AM, Bugyotsuji said:

How do you know that the wakizashi is "from the Edo Period (or later)"?

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The seller says edo period, and given the price and the general state, I don't think it can be much older. 

But I'd be very happy to stand corrected on that assumption!

[Bugyotsuji]

Dealers are often wrong.

[Cola]

  On 2/14/2024 at 1:18 PM, Bugyotsuji said:

Dealers are often wrong.

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But usually by judging something to be older than it is, right? At least that's what I assumed, and why I added "(or later)".

 

[Nihonto student]

Carlo, some images of the complete blade would help to contextualize the signature, if I remember correctly there are some Moriie in the Muromachi period, and outside of Bizen I remember one from the Takada school but still none worthy of note... the name Moriie is an important name therefore without certifications of any kind I would assume that it is Gimei.

[Cola]

  On 2/14/2024 at 2:04 PM, Nihonto student said:

Carlo, some images of the complete blade would help to contextualize the signature, if I remember correctly there are some Moriie in the Muromachi period, and outside of Bizen I remember one from the Takada school but still none worthy of note... the name Moriie is an important name therefore without certifications of any kind I would assume that it is Gimei.

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Sure! Gimei is a possibility, which is why I was also looking for other Moriie works to compare the signatures. Let me know if there are any details you would like me to make pictures of; these are from the seller, who is way better at making pictures of swords.

 

 

[Nihonto student]

I don't think it will be easy to find comparisons for Moriie outside of the Kamakura period, I can tell you that this dealer mainly sells blades that are problematic in terms of condition or "discussed" origin.
Then in general we have to ask ourselves, why does a dealer in Japan with NBTHK behind his house sell non-certified blades?

Answers:

1) He knows very well that the signature is fake so he doesn't even try to certify it.
2) He tried to certify it thinking he had a chance but it was rejected.
In any case, I saw that in the last few days this dealer  added  also some certified blades, so if I were you I would try to see something that would give me greater security...then the fact remains that if you like the blade and the price is appropriate...why not ?

[Cola]

  On 2/14/2024 at 2:42 PM, Nihonto student said:

I don't think it will be easy to find comparisons for Moriie outside of the Kamakura period, I can tell you that this dealer mainly sells blades that are problematic in terms of condition or "discussed" origin.
Then in general we have to ask ourselves, why does a dealer in Japan with NBTHK behind his house sell non-certified blades?

Answers:

1) He knows very well that the signature is fake so he doesn't even try to certify it.
2) He tried to certify it thinking he had a chance but it was rejected.
In any case, I saw that in the last few days this dealer  added  also some certified blades, so if I were you I would try to see something that would give me greater security...then the fact remains that if you like the blade and the price is appropriate...why not ?

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I'm not worried about being ripped off, and I'm also not interested in selling it for a profit or something like that. Let's just say I didn't have to sell a kidney to get it, so I wasn't expecting much, but when it arrived I was very positively surprised about the condition of the blade. 

I just want to learn about it a bit, and maybe I'll try to have nice koshirae made for it. I figured the signature was a good place to start. But if the smith didn't exist in the time the sword was made, then it's just a fake signature, possibly put on there by the same guy that filled a mekugi hole for some reason?

[Franco]

The nakago jiri is suggestive of Bizen. Combine that with the dealers call of Edo and it would seem that this sword lands in nowhere land. Or at least the mei does. This is the problem with trying to confirm the sword via the mei and not the other way around. First figure out what the sword is and then the rest may fall in place or out of place. Whichever the case may be.

 

Btw, when you're attempting to figure out what a sword is, you begin with evaluating the shape, not an image of the nakago. 

 

p.s. 

  Quote

I just want to learn about it a bit, and maybe I'll try to have nice koshirae made for it. I figured the signature was a good place to start. But if the smith didn't exist in the time the sword was made, then it's just a fake signature, possibly put on there by the same guy that filled a mekugi hole for some reason?

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Sometimes the mekugi-ana was filled to indicate it was the original hole. Koshirae, ehh? Nice, ehh? Sounds like this  unknown possibly gimei blade is becoming more expensive by the minute.