Muromachi period signed Katana

[Drips]

Evening all!

I thought I would pop back in here! It's been many years, but I remember the support and help you all had with my Family Sword!

Recently after a trip to Japan I have purchased a sword online as it's shape and general appearance and hopefully age and authenticity resonated with me.

I have attached photos of the blade, It is rusted with both black and red rust, at this stage I have been oiling it with Barricade rust protection.

My location is in Australia I'm looking for as much information as possible on it, possible restoration options and how to get a Shira Saya / fittings made?

It also did come with a Torokusho.

Google Drive Link: https://drive.google...JrpeCehW?usp=sharing
 

[Ray Singer]

I believe this is Uda Kunimune. Muromachi period. 

[SteveM]

Here's your man for any restoration questions in Oz.

https://touken-togishi.com/

 

[Drips]

9 hours ago, Ray Singer said:

I believe this is Uda Kunimune. Muromachi period. 

 

7 hours ago, SteveM said:

Here's your man for any restoration questions in Oz.

https://touken-togishi.com/

 

Thank you both very much for your responses! 

I will send off an email to Andrew in regards to resoration!

Based on the photos does this sword seem to be authentic? I can see a lot of pitting, Was it common in the Muromachi period for a less then perfect polish as these were very much in active use?

 

And just a FYI, In person the Hamon is less pronounced, it's actually very beautiful in the photos i've found.

[Ray Singer]

The nakago (tang) must remain in the current condition. The black patina that you see is correct for the time period and should not be cleaned or removed in any way. As far as the blade itself, Japanese swords were polished intermittently every few years or decades depending on the conditions that they were kept. I would not look at the current condition with rust and take into consideration it's overall age as the reason for pitting. A sword that is only a few years old and poorly maintained can similarly become rusted and pitted. I strongly advocate as well for speaking with Andrew. 

[Ray Singer]

And yes, this looks convincingly like a Muromachi period blade, and my gut feeling is that the inscription is authentic

[Drips]

5 hours ago, Ray Singer said:

The nakago (tang) must remain in the current condition. The black patina that you see is correct for the time period and should not be cleaned or removed in any way. As far as the blade itself, Japanese swords were polished intermittently every few years or decades depending on the conditions that they were kept. I would not look at the current condition with rust and take into consideration it's overall age as the reason for pitting. A sword that is only a few years old and poorly maintained can similarly become rusted and pitted. I strongly advocate as well for speaking with Andrew. 

 

5 hours ago, Ray Singer said:

And yes, this looks convincingly like a Muromachi period blade, and my gut feeling is that the inscription is authentic

 

Thank you so much Ray!

I have emailed Andrew, he has provided me instruction on how to ship the blade, he did however say he is unable to make a shirasaya at the moment, Is there any suggestions on how to get one made?

[Drips]

Just a quick update.

I have posted my sword to Andrew. He will conduct a Sword Appraisal!

Looking forward to updating everyone here!

[Brian]

Best guy you could deal with.

[Drips]

Morning all,

 

Just thought I would give an update on the sword.

 

Andrew has appraised the sword and i'm happy in one way but also un-happy in another. I have decided to share the full appraisal becouse I do love fact finding and shareing information.

What I'm happy about, I have found out more about the sword and it has come from a professional in the field.

What i'm un-happy about, I would still like to get the sword a Polish a Habaki and Shirasaya, Andrew did not want to do this for my sword. He has advsied it's not personal and I respect that, I can only assume that he does not see it as worth his time. That however does not help me with my goal. I still want to do this for my sword. Spending money even if it does not add to the value is fine with me. As I still want to display this sword and also protect it more than with a newspaper saya. Would anyone have any suggestions or options?

 

Quote

PROVENANCE

 

This Japanese sword is a katana, defined as being above 60.6cm in length and signed on the katana-
omote (front) side of the nakago (tang).

 

The nakago is signed, it reads as 宇多国宗 – Uda Kunimune.

 

There were possibly 6 generations of Uda Kunimune makers (different sources cite different number
of gens), all of whom were situated in Etchu province (present day Toyama prefecture). They range
in working periods from Eitoku period (1381-1383) for the 1 st gen to Tensho period (1573-1591) for
the 6 th gen.

 

Judging by the sugata (shape) of your blade, I’d say it looks to be mid-late Muromachi period (1392-
1573), and so your signature would most likely be by the 4 th , 5 th or 6 th gen.

 

When comparing the signature on your blade to the reference examples available to me, I wasn’t
able to find any good matches unfortunately. But that doesn’t mean your signature is a fake, as most
of the available reference examples are for the early-mid Muromachi period gens, I wasn’t able to
find many at all for the mid-late Muromachi period gens.

 

I can’t confirm for sure without a good signature match, but I think it’s possible that your signature is
shoshin (authentic), as the later generations of Uda Kunimune aren’t highly valued makers, so there
wouldn’t be much point in faking this signature.

 

From what can be seen in the workmanship of the steel, I’d say it’s a good match for late Muromachi
period Uda school work. So, this backs up the chances of the signature being correct.

 

Please see attached files ‘1-6.jpg’ for some of the reference examples I could find. As you can see,
none of them are a good match. Also, if you look at the attached pic of your signature ‘mei1.jpg’
you’ll see the stroke which is the biggest problem to match, the closest match to this stroke is in pic
‘2.jpg’.

 

So to summarise, I’d say there’s a decent chance your signature is authentic for one of the later
Muromachi period Uda Kunimune makers, but I’m unable to confirm that 100%.

 

QUALITY

 

The workmanship in this katana does show the style I’d expect to see from the Uda school, however
the level of quality is definitely on the lower side.

 

I can see some hataraki (activities) within the yakiba (hardened edge), such as sunagashi and kinsuji,
but overall, the yakiba is weak and uneven. There are several areas where it looks like the yakiba
fades in brightness, almost completely disappearing.

 

There are also some questions over the quality of the forging, with several areas of rough forging
visible.

 

CONDITION

 

The condition of this sword is very poor overall:

 

- The blade is o-suriage (greatly shortened), which is a big condition issue for a sword from the
Muromachi period onwards.
- There are many openings in the forging of the steel.
- There is quite a bit of rust.
- There are some chips in the cutting edge.
- There is a possible crack that runs along the cutting edge (see pic ‘kizu.jpg’)
- There is no habaki, tsuka or saya.

RESTORATION OPTIONS

 

Unfortunately, I don’t see this sword as being financially viable to restore. An o-suriage blade from
the Muromachi period has already lost quite a bit of value, but with all the condition issues, and the
possibility of the yakiba being weak/fading out in places, it’d be a huge risk to pay for any kind of
restoration.

 

If the sword were to be restored, the end result would likely be worth less than the restoration
costs.

 

You were enquiring about a shirasaya as well? You’d need to first have a habaki made in order to get
shirasaya made, but I wouldn’t recommend having either made for this blade. Instead, you should
keep the blade in kamizaya (paper scabbard).

 

I have made a kamizaya for you at no extra cost and will ship the blade back to you in the kamizaya.

 

VALUE

 

I estimate the current value of this blade to be approximately $1,000AU.

 

[Bugyotsuji]

From everything I see written there he is thinking of you and your pocket.

 

A shirasaya is not for display, but for protecting the blade when it is not in full koshirae display mode. 

 

Perhaps you could ask him for rough estimates of what a shirasaya, habaki and polish would cost in Oz? I reckon you could pay well over $2,000 for these, on top of your intial purchase price of $1,000. 

[Rivkin]

It looks like honest and probably realistic appraisal. Yes, everyone wants to polish a blade to be a part of magic, most of the time it is not advised. Few polishers will tell you that.

 

On a sidenote, I know plenty of polishers who are awful in kantei and very few who are good so their opinions as those of everyone need to be taken with salt, but everything seems to be in place here.

[Drips]

23 minutes ago, Bugyotsuji said:

From everything I see written there he is thinking of you and your pocket.

 

A shirasaya is not for display, but for protecting the blade when it is not in koshirae. 

 

Perhaps you could ask him for rough estimates of what a shirasaya, habaki and polish would cost in Oz? I reckon you could pay well over $2,000 for these, on top of your intial purchase price of $1,000. 

I have no doubt he is thinking of both.

I have already seen the estimated costs for the polish alone and we are talking of $3,000 and up based on the costs of the website.

As stated before these wern't even on the table, so that is why I have a little bit of frustration, I do not want my sword to "sit in a corner in newspaper". I do want it protected in a Shirasaya. And if im being honest with myself I'm not bothered with the polish, however I feel it would help prevent more rusting from occuring.

[Bugyotsuji]

Some years ago I asked around for someone here in Japan to make me a shirasaya. Among the replies was one which surprised me. "Why don't you make your own?"

 

"Must be joking!" I thought, but this person was serious. 

 

Since then I have paid more attention to shirasaya in general, and although most are beautifully created, many of them do indeed, judging by the material and shape, look to be homemade. (So not totally impossible. I would want to learn how to do it first, though, if ever I were to try my hand!)

[Drips]

34 minutes ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Some years ago I asked around for someone here in Japan to make me a shirasaya. Among the replies was one which surprised me. "Why don't you make your own?"

 

"Must be joking!" I thought, but this person was serious. 

 

Since then I have paid more attention to shirasaya in general, and although most are beautifully created, many of them do indeed, judging by the material and shape, look to be homemade. (So not totally impossible. I would want to learn how to do it first, though, if ever I were to try my hand!)

 

Andrew did provide me with a contact https://nosyudo.jp/ 

I will make enquiries for a Shirasaya and Habaki.

[Bugyotsuji]

For a shirasaya and habaki, if you want them made in Japan, you'd have to send the blade there, which is normally a huge hassle for most people both sending and receiving.

[Jussi Ekholm]

I think Andrew gave very well thought and written reply to you.

 

In Australia you could try to message Jigoku Studios about shirasaya & habaki. Unfortunately never done any business with restorers in general so I am not much advice in there. Or you could try asking Nihonto Australia if they know any local restorers in AU, John is a great guy.

 

However I am in same boat with Andrews advice that spending money on item restoration would be something that you won't recover and perhaps would be better saving that money towards another item, and trying to enjoy the Kunimune blade in the current state as much as you can?