How bad is this?

[Reinier]

The kissaki on this wakizashi is quite tired. My guess is it had a broken tip at some point and a lot of metal had to be removed to correct it.

 

How bad is it really? Is it just kind of acceptable as the boshi touches the edge or is it completely junk?

 

Thank you,

 

Reinier

[Mikaveli]

Definitely looks reshaped to me.

 

The hamon touching/disappearing off the edge is certainly a no-no for most collectors, sadly.

[Mark S.]

In general, most definitely bad… EXCEPT… if the blade is extremely old and/or by a documented famous smith AND the blade adds something to the study of nihonto. Maybe the blade is dated, has an interesting mei that confirms where or when smith was working, there are few blades made by this famous smith and this blade is important to study the activities that can still been seen, etc?  Not all damage or ‘proper repairs’ (in some cases, polisher may have no other alternative) relegates a blade to the scrap yard… but there needs to be a VERY GOOD reason that these types of things can be lived with.

[Shugyosha]

I think you have to weigh it in the context of the price.

 

It's a fatal flaw or very close to one so it has to have something else about it make you part with your money because you may be stuck with it for a long time and lose money when you sell it on. Looking at the pictures, it looks like a shinto blade and there isn't anything remarkable about it in terms of hada or hamon to justify the risk so I'd probably pass, but it's your money.

 

Edit: Mark got there ahead of me but I posted because I'd already typed a reply.

[Mark S.]

Below, please find excerpts from an article by Darcy Brockbank (RIP).  Please note, I edited out most parts of the article discussing chasing papers as they were not pertinent to this discussion, but I point it out so no one thinks I am intentionally trying to edit Darcy’s original intent:

 

Don’t Bother, It Has No Boshi - Darcy Brockbank

When I started out in sword collecting, I visited the San Francisco sword show a few times. Like everyone else, eagerly looking over the tables for interesting items.

At this point I was just beginning to be able to read some Japanese, and I saw a sword with a sayagaki to Rai Kunitoshi. This was ranked Tokubetsu Hozon. Like most beginners as soon as I figured out what Juyo was, I wanted to find them myself, submit and get a sword to win in the competition.

Rai Kunitoshi is one of the masters of all the ages, so for a rookie, this seemed like an easy candidate. I looked over the sword and it was beautifully made with sparkling silky jihada. It was a little bit short but it had a Honami shumei, a red lacquer inscription attributing it to Rai Kunitoshi and this further elevated the value.

 

[MARK S. NOTE: at this point another experienced collector Gary Condell (RIP) let Darcy know the blade had no boshi]

The boshi is the hamon of the sword in the kissaki. For westerners it is one of the last areas of the hamon they tend to look at. This is a bit misguided, as the boshi is one of the key areas of the blade for functionality and kantei. I read in a book a phrase which sums up how you should feel about the boshi. The kissaki is the head of the sword. The boshi is its face. The boshi is as important to the sword as the face is to a person. - Someone Very Smart Whom I Am Paraphrasing

Here lies some magical wisdom because an excellent boshi is one of the factors that drives a sword through Juyo and Tokubetsu Juyo rankings. Having no boshi whatsoever is a fatal flaw in most cases. It kills the sword, unless the sword is of sufficient age.

In the case of this Rai Kunitoshi with no boshi, the NBTHK struck a balancing pose. As it was Kamakura period work by a great master, it was allowed to rise to Tokubetsu Hozon but no higher. If the work was lesser quality it would not even go here, or if the work were by a lesser smith it would not receive any papers at all due to the lack of boshi.

This is, again, why people need to study and cannot accept easy, simple explanations for complicated issues. If a sword has a fatal flaw it's going to be abandoned. Rai Kunitoshi work should never be abandoned, so by striking this balance between the extremes the NBTHK causes the blade to be preserved.

A polisher had dummied up a boshi on this sword and for beginners it can be hard to tell the difference. Why the polisher did this is up for speculation, but Occam's razor tells us that it was to fool someone and convince them to buy this piece as a clear no-boshi condition will scare away many treasure hunters.

Therein lies something that is hard to get away from in this hobby (nor should it be gotten away from in total), which is the pursuit of elevation of papers. With this blade, few actually would enjoy it for what it was, but once the flaw was pointed out to them they would lose all enjoyment of the piece. When they saw it, they were not thinking, my what a beautiful work of Rai Kunitoshi but they were thinking Man, this is cheap and I can get a Juyo out of it. 

Posted on July 25, 2017 Author

[Reinier]

40 minutes ago, Shugyosha said:

Looking at the pictures, it looks like a shinto blade and there isn't anything remarkable about it in terms of hada or hamon to justify the risk so I'd probably pass, but it's your money.

 

Can you tell me why it looks like a shinto blade? What do you see? I am asking because I want to learn

 

[Reinier]

Thanks for the reply guys.

[Shugyosha]

1 hour ago, Reinier said:

 

Can you tell me why it looks like a shinto blade? What do you see? I am asking because I want to learn

 

 

Hi Reinier,

 

I could of course be wrong, I can't see the sugata which would be helpful in judging the age of the blade and it could be a shin-shinto blade too, based on the following three considerations:

• The shape of the hamon is carried through into the boshi. Often with shinto and later blades there will be no variation between the two and in this case we see a suguba hamon (perhaps with a little notare) continue through the point whereas in koto schools there is often a different shape to the hamon in the boshi than before it This is of course a generalisation and you will now immediately find me exceptions but it is something to have in mind.
• The hamon itself: I don't see any activity within the hamon below the nioi guchi which I think has some ko-nie. Koto blades tend to have more going on in terms of ashi and yo and other features but I can't see any in the pictures.
• Hada - this is quite fine in the hiraji to the extent that it is hard to pick out (at least on my computer screen). Shinto blades are often quite finely forged compared to koto blades and in shin shinto blades this can be taken almost to the vanishing point. The grain in the shinogi-ji is more obvious and fairly straight. Because societal factors including the great that wiped out Osafune and other sword villages in Bizen province, it was sword making techniques used in the Mino schools that for the most part passed down into the shinto schools and Mino blades often have a straight grain above the shinogi due to the orientation of the core steel or back steel depending on the construction of the blade. This is what I see here but it doesn't have any obvious Mino traits so added into the above it suggests shinto to me.

The point I was trying to make is that, because the blade is fairly bland with little to see (at least based on these photographs), I wouldn't spend my money on it. I have bought a blade that I knew had a fatal flaw but I did so because it was cheap, it was interesting and had nice fittings that I though might display well.

 

I hope that helps and gives you some points to consider.

[vajo]

Reshaped tip. The boshi runs out. 

 

[2devnul]

Possible root cause of re-shaping. This example is my unlucky delivery ... 

[Mikaveli]

8 hours ago, Mark S. said:

In the case of this Rai Kunitoshi with no boshi, the NBTHK struck a balancing pose. As it was Kamakura period work by a great master, it was allowed to rise to Tokubetsu Hozon but no higher. If the work was lesser quality it would not even go here, or if the work were by a lesser smith it would not receive any papers at all due to the lack of boshi.

 

Slightly off topic, but in another topic the standards around TH was being discussed.

 

I'd already guessed that the standard varied by smith. I.e. it's more a "how important is this for preservation" rather than a strict, uniform standard of condition.

 

The quoted text from Darcy Brockbank confirms this. ...and it's definitely something important to understand. Many new collectors (including myself initially) think of TH as a very high standard of condition - when in reality it can be relative (age, smith etc.).

[Paz]

I beleive its acceptable to have no boshi if the blade is kamakura or nanbokucho / muromachi. As its likely it was used and the kissaki suffered damage. Which may even add to the value of the sword. Doesant mean it would get juyo. 

 

On shinto pieces and beyond I gather it would be a flaw. 

 

Regards 

 

[Brian]

6 hours ago, Paz said:

...As its likely it was used and the kissaki suffered damage. Which may even add to the value of the sword...

 

It definitely does not. Never.

[Matsunoki]

7 hours ago, Paz said:

I beleive its acceptable to have no boshi if the blade is kamakura or nanbokucho / muromachi. As its likely it was used and the kissaki suffered damage. Which may even add to the value of the sword

That’s a provocative thing to say….and possibly very misleading. No boshi is a fatal flaw. On most swords it destroys the £value and often also the collectable interest. On some exceptional swords either by age or smith it becomes “tolerable“ simply because of rarity. A huge proportion of Muromachi swords (made in huge numbers) weren’t that great in the first place so to say they are acceptable or even more valuable with no boshi makes little sense.

 

[DoTanuki yokai]

14 hours ago, Shugyosha said:

 

• The shape of the hamon is carried through into the boshi. Often with shinto and later blades there will be no variation between the two and in this case we see a suguba hamon (perhaps with a little notare) continue through the point whereas in koto schools there is often a different shape to the hamon in the boshi than before it This is of course a generalisation and you will now immediately find me exceptions but it is something to have in mind.

I think you mixed things up suguha boshi is Shinto and keeping the pattern of the hamon also in the Boshi is Koto. 
 

[Paz]

2 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

That’s a provocative thing to say….and possibly very misleading. No boshi is a fatal flaw. On most swords it destroys the £value and often also the collectable interest. On some exceptional swords either by age or smith it becomes “tolerable“ simply because of rarity. A huge proportion of Muromachi swords (made in huge numbers) weren’t that great in the first place so to say they are acceptable or even more valuable with no boshi makes little sense.

 

Sorry I was referring to earlier post and darcy article. I personally don't believe it's a fatal flaw at all, thus my comment defending it. Nakahara mentioned this in his book aswell, that damage over use can be effect the boshi and kissaki. 

 

I have seen blades which are Tokubetsu hozon and a remade kissaki. 

 

Regards 

[Shugyosha]

2 hours ago, DoTanuki yokai said:

I think you mixed things up suguha boshi is Shinto and keeping the pattern of the hamon also in the Boshi is Koto. 
 

 

That's entirely possible, and thanks for the correction. I'm using the head-slap emoji quite a bit at the moment.

[Matsunoki]

34 minutes ago, Paz said:

that damage over use can be effect the boshi and kissaki. 

Of course kissaki get damaged through use and very often reshaped. The reshaping can negatively impact the sugata and the aesthetic appeal but once the hamon disappears off the end of the end of the blade it is a fatal flaw. Definitely you are entitled to your  views but 99% will disagree. There is a very big difference between a kissaki that has been remade and one that has no hamon/boshi left. 

[Paz]

16 minutes ago, Matsunoki said:

Of course kissaki get damaged through use and very often reshaped. The reshaping can negatively impact the sugata and the aesthetic appeal but once the hamon disappears off the end of the end of the blade it is a fatal flaw. Definitely you are entitled to your  views but 99% will disagree. There is a very big difference between a kissaki that has been remade and one that has no hamon/boshi left. 

But if a kissaki is damaged to the point that it needs full rework, wouldn't that automatically mean that the hamon is lost? Again I'm talking about substantial damage to the kissaki. 

 

And referring to this being prevalent on older blades ?. 

 

Sorry if I'm coming across as being inquisitive or ignorant, I'm still learning. 

 

Regards 

[Matsunoki]

8 minutes ago, Paz said:

But if a kissaki is damaged to the point that it needs full rework, wouldn't that automatically mean that the hamon is lost? Again I'm

No. It’s really simple. Does the hamon go off the end of the blade? If so, fatal.

If it hangs on, even rather narrow it’s still “alive”.

Also beware of clever polishing techniques that create the illusion of a boshi where there is none

[Paz]

52 minutes ago, Matsunoki said:

No. It’s really simple. Does the hamon go off the end of the blade? If so, fatal.

If it hangs on, even rather narrow it’s still “alive”.

Also beware of clever polishing techniques that create the illusion of a boshi where there is none

Point taken, thank you. 

 

Regards 

[Reinier]

3 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

No. It’s really simple. Does the hamon go off the end of the blade? If so, fatal.

If it hangs on, even rather narrow it’s still “alive”.

Also beware of clever polishing techniques that create the illusion of a boshi where there is none

 

This is how I judged this sword. To me it seems just at the edge but still alive.

[Matsunoki]

8 minutes ago, Reinier said:

To me it seems just at the edge but still alive.

Hi Reinier 

Phew, it’s a close one! In one image I think I can see the “turn back” mostly because the polish shows the different steel colour of soft vs hardened…..but better images with various lights would help…..maybe🙂

[Jussi Ekholm]

I feel the main question is what the sword is in general and how do you feel about it?

 

I own a sword with problematic bōshi. Got it from fellow forum member who is a great sword dealer, after realizing the flaw on inspection he offered a huge discount on the item (so flaw like this affects the price by a great factor). I am super happy with the item and I would much rather own an unique item with huge flaw than a pristine item that is not to my liking. It just depends on how do you feel about the item in general, at least for me. In my league I cannot afford items to my liking that are close to perfect so I need to search for items that are available in my range that I still want to have.

 

 

[Alex A]

18 hours ago, 2devnul said:

Possible root cause of re-shaping. This example is my unlucky delivery ... 

 

 

Are you sending it back ?

 

Sometimes with care they can be straightened, trouble is if you try it and break it off then i guess its your problem.

[2devnul]

17 hours ago, Alex A said:

 

 

Are you sending it back ?

 

Sometimes with care they can be straightened, trouble is if you try it and break it off then i guess its your problem.

I got a discount from dealer (as sword was damaged during the shipment, that is what happens if you buy a blade without Shirasaya/Koshirae and poor packaging) and found a buyer for damaged sword. I got my money back in the end, but lost the sword I wanted.