Jizai Okimono

[Majus]

Hello.

 

I'm new here, but this forum looks very interesting.

 

I would like to ask about Jizai Okimono. This art is rather associated with things that are quite old.

I know that new things are being created, mainly insects.

 

I wonder if the buyer thinks only about the investment , less about the art.

But what if there is something new on the market, does it threaten art or the market?

 

Thank you very much for your reply and opinions

[Matsunoki]

There are many new so called “jizai” appearing nowadays. They are mostly made from bent copper sheet or tin. Crayfish, shrimps and some insects are the most common. Some carry famous name fake signatures. Some come in “original tomobako” to make them look more important. Do not confuse them with the older examples.
True jizai go way back but the finest examples were made by ex armour smiths…..Myochin etc…..in the Meiji period. The best are made from iron  and are skilfully fully articulated…..fully moving bodies on snakes, fish, dragons, hawks etc. often signed Myochin. These genuine old examples are extremely sought after and fetch very high prices.

The presence of the low quality “look alikes” will never diminish the value or market for the real thing. There is absolutely no comparison in quality or the skill in manufacturing. BUT YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE!

Also during Meiji very good articulated lobsters, crayfish and crabs etc. were fashioned in bronze. These are heavy solid items, usually signed and the articulation of the joints is well done with concealed pins. These are also sought after but do not fetch the same prices as the iron examples.

Should also mention that some were made in Meiji in boxwood…..mostly dragons 

You can get a good idea by searching Bonhams and Christie’s past lots using “iron jizai”.

 

[Majus]

I have been interested in Jizai Okimono for some time, but from the technical side.

So I'm not a buyer, I make them. Everyone must have a hobby :).

And I think I've had some successes.

But economically it is a failure, there is no interest.

That's why I asked my question yesterday.

 

Colin, may I ask you how often you can evaluate Jizai Okimono ?

In my case you might be surprised

 

[Bugyotsuji]

There is a dealer in London with some great examples, and a good collection in Chiddingstone Castle in Kent.

[Matsunoki]

  On 2/7/2024 at 8:13 AM, Majus said:

Colin, may I ask you how often you can evaluate Jizai Okimono ?

In my case you might be surprised

Expand  

I’m a retired dealer in Japanese Art specialising in the Meiji period. I’ve owned many , probably over 30 in over 40 years. Iron, bronze, wood…..some ivory

Why do you ask?

what do you use to make yours?

how do you construct the joints?

what subjects do you make?

images would be interesting 

[Brian]

The better Jizai Okimono I have seen make all the pressed soft metal ones look like toys. Iron that feels alive. I've seen some of the best, and they are just simply mindblowing. These pressed brass and riveted ones are in the trinket leagues. I'd say the good to excellent ones feature carving and substance, whereas the thin pressed brass ones are in the entry level leagues.
Love to see some pics. Here's some smaller and simpler ones that are still in the higher grade.

[Majus]

I met a dealer from London, he's not interested.

After several attempts to contact people from Jizai Okimono's circle, I believe that it is a very closed group.

Not open to new things, new people.

 

It took me a while to achieve what I have, years of trying. I started with the snake.

I modeled it on the snake from the British Museum, from the photo. I made it too big :).

 

My first snake , material:

body (steel),

eyes (silver),

joints (secret, I can't just do that )

 

articulated.aviFetching info...  

 

 

[Majus]

For now I only make snakes and fish. I think I like this dragon scale pattern. insects are probably on a different level. I'm slowly thinking about the dragon, but everyday problems bother me a bit

 

Another snake , material:

body (steel),

eyes (brass),

 

and I have to solve some technical problems in the case of the dragon, and some chemical ones

 

 

 

 

[Matsunoki]

What are you trying to do? Sell them?

I’m impressed by the images. 
who did you see in London ?  KP or MF?

[Majus]

KP, I don't recognise MF

 

it would be nice to turn a hobby into money,

and my fish: steel body

[Matsunoki]

Send me pm with prices. Be sensible!

id buy them for the art.

[Jussi Ekholm]

I do not know a thing about these other than having seen few old ones. However I am liking your work and I think you are talented.

[kissakai]

Same for me as Colins reply

 

[Majus]

it's been a while. i've been trying to sort out a legal issue related to the art, it's a jungle.

 

But I found time for new jizai okimono . .

 

[Majus]

new snake, very flexible, but already planning some changes, mainly around the head

[Majus]

next carp, I am quite happy with it.

[Shogun8]

Hi Majus,

 

First of all, congratulations on trying to tackle this esoteric art. 

 

I fully agree with all of Colin's comments about the huge differences between the early Myochin work and pieces from the workshop of Takase Kozan vs. the cheap, rudimentary pieces that we often see on the market. Judging by your work so far, I don't think you're trying to monetize your craft by creating the cheap knock-offs. I especially like your carp. 

 

As I'm sure you're aware, there are a very few other artisans working in the space, most notably Haruo Mitsuta. What I think differentiates Mitsuta's work is that he's not simply trying to copy the old Myochin or Kozan work, he is actually breaking new ground by making examples of creatures that have not been made before and using materials that add to the realism. 

 

I understand that there is someone in Europe who is making fairly good copies of iron jizai (I haven't seen them, so I can't attest to their quality) and trying to pass them off as old examples. Although I have some contemporary pieces in my collection (including by Mitsuta), I would personally stay away from work that is trying to be passed off as an antique.

 

As a collector, my advice to you is if you're serious about making this a vocation, try making new subjects or creatures. Of course, there may be collectors out there who may want to buy copies of old items or may even commission you to do so, which is ok as far as I'm concerned.

[Majus]

Hi Shogun 8

 

Thank you, for now I try to imitate the old masters, I'm learning. I make utsushi, if that's the right word.

 

I have my own sign and I somehow like the pattern of the scales.

 

I'm currently working on shachi, this time I'm basing it on an existing object, we'll see what I come up with. I'll definitely share some photos.

 

But the next project, I don't know, I'm thinking about a sandworm from Dune. We'll see. I don't know what the Sandworm will look like, definitely not like in the picture :), this is rather a very preliminary idea

 

 

[Matsunoki]

Brilliant work again. Dune sand worm? hmmmmm…..but then I love the traditional pieces so what do I know!

Nice to see you pop up on here again.

You can always message me in view of our previous discussions. Hope you’ve sorted the legal stuff out!

[raynor]

These are great, your passion is clearly visible in your work. I saw some absolutely insane antique examples some years ago in a London museum, since then I've only seen fairly decent modern ones in plastic of fantastical creatures from Japan show up on ebay and the like when looking for other things so your idea of a Dune sandworm should not be too radical.