Jizai Okimono

[Majus]

Hello.

 

I'm new here, but this forum looks very interesting.

 

I would like to ask about Jizai Okimono. This art is rather associated with things that are quite old.

I know that new things are being created, mainly insects.

 

I wonder if the buyer thinks only about the investment , less about the art.

But what if there is something new on the market, does it threaten art or the market?

 

Thank you very much for your reply and opinions

[Matsunoki]

There are many new so called “jizai” appearing nowadays. They are mostly made from bent copper sheet or tin. Crayfish, shrimps and some insects are the most common. Some carry famous name fake signatures. Some come in “original tomobako” to make them look more important. Do not confuse them with the older examples.
True jizai go way back but the finest examples were made by ex armour smiths…..Myochin etc…..in the Meiji period. The best are made from iron  and are skilfully fully articulated…..fully moving bodies on snakes, fish, dragons, hawks etc. often signed Myochin. These genuine old examples are extremely sought after and fetch very high prices.

The presence of the low quality “look alikes” will never diminish the value or market for the real thing. There is absolutely no comparison in quality or the skill in manufacturing. BUT YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE!

Also during Meiji very good articulated lobsters, crayfish and crabs etc. were fashioned in bronze. These are heavy solid items, usually signed and the articulation of the joints is well done with concealed pins. These are also sought after but do not fetch the same prices as the iron examples.

Should also mention that some were made in Meiji in boxwood…..mostly dragons 

You can get a good idea by searching Bonhams and Christie’s past lots using “iron jizai”.

 

[Majus]

I have been interested in Jizai Okimono for some time, but from the technical side.

So I'm not a buyer, I make them. Everyone must have a hobby :).

And I think I've had some successes.

But economically it is a failure, there is no interest.

That's why I asked my question yesterday.

 

Colin, may I ask you how often you can evaluate Jizai Okimono ?

In my case you might be surprised

 

[Bugyotsuji]

There is a dealer in London with some great examples, and a good collection in Chiddingstone Castle in Kent.

[Matsunoki]

1 hour ago, Majus said:

Colin, may I ask you how often you can evaluate Jizai Okimono ?

In my case you might be surprised

I’m a retired dealer in Japanese Art specialising in the Meiji period. I’ve owned many , probably over 30 in over 40 years. Iron, bronze, wood…..some ivory

Why do you ask?

what do you use to make yours?

how do you construct the joints?

what subjects do you make?

images would be interesting 

[Brian]

The better Jizai Okimono I have seen make all the pressed soft metal ones look like toys. Iron that feels alive. I've seen some of the best, and they are just simply mindblowing. These pressed brass and riveted ones are in the trinket leagues. I'd say the good to excellent ones feature carving and substance, whereas the thin pressed brass ones are in the entry level leagues.
Love to see some pics. Here's some smaller and simpler ones that are still in the higher grade.

[Majus]

I met a dealer from London, he's not interested.

After several attempts to contact people from Jizai Okimono's circle, I believe that it is a very closed group.

Not open to new things, new people.

 

It took me a while to achieve what I have, years of trying. I started with the snake.

I modeled it on the snake from the British Museum, from the photo. I made it too big :).

 

My first snake , material:

body (steel),

eyes (silver),

joints (secret, I can't just do that )

 

 

 

 

[Majus]

For now I only make snakes and fish. I think I like this dragon scale pattern. insects are probably on a different level. I'm slowly thinking about the dragon, but everyday problems bother me a bit

 

Another snake , material:

body (steel),

eyes (brass),

 

and I have to solve some technical problems in the case of the dragon, and some chemical ones

 

 

 

 

[Matsunoki]

What are you trying to do? Sell them?

I’m impressed by the images. 
who did you see in London ?  KP or MF?

[Majus]

KP, I don't recognise MF

 

it would be nice to turn a hobby into money,

and my fish: steel body

[Matsunoki]

Send me pm with prices. Be sensible!

id buy them for the art.

[Jussi Ekholm]

I do not know a thing about these other than having seen few old ones. However I am liking your work and I think you are talented.

[kissakai]

Same for me as Colins reply