Iaido dude Posted February 5, 2024 Report Posted February 5, 2024 So, I’m a newbie to NMB and tsuba collecting and appreciation. I practice iaido, which naturally grew into an interest in nihonto. I wonder what you folks think of this sukashi tsuba with hakogaki by Sasano indicating it is Kinai middle Edo. It doesn’t look like the work of the Kinai school from what my on-line research has gleaned. I have long been wondering about the meaning of symbols at 12 and 6, and at 3 and 9 o’clock. Could they be aoi leaves alternating with aoi buds? Life, death, rebirth. I imagine a samurai running or riding into battle would take comfort in knowing that life and death are not separate. 8 Quote
Infinite_Wisdumb Posted February 6, 2024 Report Posted February 6, 2024 Agree on death and rebirth 2 Quote
Iaido dude Posted February 6, 2024 Author Report Posted February 6, 2024 Thanks. Artur Drogamiecza from whom I just received a nice sukashi just let me know that “Kinai” was never a part of the hakogaki. And aoi (hollyhock) is in fact mentioned by Sasano sensei. Mystery solved! I’m just simply astounded at how bad the translation is that came with this sukashi. I definitely need to learn Japanese. Artur thinks it belongs to the Owari or second Shoami school. If my interpretation is correct then the movement often mentioned in relation to at least the ko Shoami can be appreciated as one follows the “leaf-bud-leaf-bud” arrangement whether clockwise or counterclockwise. Quote
SteveM Posted February 6, 2024 Report Posted February 6, 2024 "Kinai" is written on the outside of the lid. It isn't shown in this picture. (I have seen this box before). I wouldn't like to argue with Sasano sensei, but you may get another attribution if you sent this to shinsa today. Quote
Iaido dude Posted February 6, 2024 Author Report Posted February 6, 2024 I’m traveling at the moment. I’ll post the pic of lid when I return, but I’m sure you are correct. The seller is not someone whom I would have guessed could make this kind of mistake. Honestly though, it doesn’t much matter to me what attribution is correct. My enjoyment and appreciation has increased immensely. Thanks for your sharing your expertise and for your suggestions. Quote
Iaido dude Posted February 9, 2024 Author Report Posted February 9, 2024 This is the box cover next to tsuba.It’s darker than the prior images suggest (photography with artificial lighting). It certainly says kinai. The calligraphy style is unmistakably that of sensei. 1 Quote
ROKUJURO Posted February 10, 2024 Report Posted February 10, 2024 Not typical for KINAI in my opinion. Quote
Steves87 Posted February 10, 2024 Report Posted February 10, 2024 (edited) quite interesting! I was re-reading a few Haynes articles to kill some time while the outside temps are 42 degc, and came across this article which has some relation to the thread: Haynes Article (shibuiswords.com) being from 1997, I found the quoted pricing also quite interesting. Edited February 10, 2024 by Steves87 added 1 Quote
Iaido dude Posted February 10, 2024 Author Report Posted February 10, 2024 This is a kinai sukashi that is less cluttered and elaborate. Apparently there were artisans of this school who could have produced my sukashi possibly incorporating ko-shoami and owari elements. The iron plate of my sukashi was carefully carved, the rim squared, and the surface is smooth without tekkotsu typical of the middle edo period. BTW, please correct me if I’m talking garbage. Quote
Iaido dude Posted February 10, 2024 Author Report Posted February 10, 2024 Stephen’s link is an interesting description and commentary on primarily kamakura iron plates sold in auction. Interesting insight into the Sasano collection pieces now in a museum in Japan. Pieces with Hakogaki by Sasano and sold in the west may not be “museum quality,” but then again tsuba like mine hold an interest nonetheless and are not fakes or outright imitations. I saw a sukashi from Sasano’s silver book (plate 134) offered from a private collection in the west being offered for $10,000 because it is a “Japanese national treasure.” It is impressive. I would have to sell one of my vintage Gibson Les Paul guitars to acquire it (I am tempted). My kinai sukashi cannot compare, but I just really enjoy and appreciate it. I do feel a kinship with sensei when I look at his seals on the hakogaki. 1 Quote
Iaido dude Posted February 10, 2024 Author Report Posted February 10, 2024 Interestingly the triple aoi is the mon of the Takagowa clan and that of the last shogunate. There is some reference to aoi in Japanese culture as symbolizing abundance (as in harvest) and good fortune, warding off thunderstorms and earthquakes, and death and rebirth (may be more a western tradition). https://en.m.wikiped...g/wiki/Tokugawa_clan https://art.thewalte...hock-crests-aoi-mon/ Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted February 10, 2024 Report Posted February 10, 2024 Both Tokugawa and Matsudaira, closely related extended families. 1 1 Quote
Soshin Posted February 10, 2024 Report Posted February 10, 2024 On 2/5/2024 at 9:11 PM, Iaido dude said: Artur thinks it belongs to the Owari or second Shoami school. Nice tsuba. Looking at how the sukashi design was done, I think this tsuba is clearly the work of Shoami School. The Owari group never used (nikubori ji-sukashi 肉彫地透かし) technique in their openwork designs. It was a common technique used by the many Shoami schools located all over Japan during the Edo Period. I also agree the Kinai School attribution is not accurate from what I know of the school's work. Quote
Iaido dude Posted February 10, 2024 Author Report Posted February 10, 2024 The aoi are carved in high relief with a sense of motion as they twist (not done in just one dimension). So, I agree with David’s comment about the Shoami school’s use of nikubori ji-sukashi technique. That really brings it all together nicely. I wonder if the lid got swapped from another or it’s simply in error. I think there is a part of the hakogaki that references “June 1991 Honorable Mention, Mumei, Middle Edo Worker, Aoi.” Was Sasano indicating that this tsuba was in some way a submission for a contest? Translation by Translate Go app may be in error, but it is very specific. 1 Quote
SteveM Posted February 10, 2024 Report Posted February 10, 2024 It says 葵透 無銘 江戸中期作 鉄地透 清勁平明 佳作 平成二年水無月 素心鑑(印) Aoi Sukashi Unsigned, mid-Edo period. Iron, sukashi Clear, strong, and unpretentious. Fine work. June, 1990 Soshinkan (Sasano's art name) "Fine Work" is the lowest grade of Sasano's three-tier grading system. Fine → Superb → Masterpiece. Lowest doesn't mean bad in his case. He wouldn't have bothered writing a hakogaki for a bad tsuba. If I remember the price correctly, and given that we are several decades past the time when Haynes was discussing, you don't need to worry about having overpaid for the piece. This is a good work, and the price was good, and regardless of the attribution on the box, both tsuba and box are nice things to have. Check out the site below for even more information. The author of that site (I think he is a poster here as well) translates 佳作 as "Beautiful Work" which is a good translation as well. 佳 literally means "beautiful" or "good". Forget about "honorable mention". Machine translation often barfs up misleading translations. https://tsubakansho....sano-senseis-grades/ 5 1 Quote
Iaido dude Posted February 10, 2024 Author Report Posted February 10, 2024 Thanks so much. This was very helpful. I don’t for a second believe I overpaid for this piece (only my 2nd sukashi tsuba). Indeed, I feel it is a great value to me at $800. The provenance just enhances the appreciation and understanding of the piece. 2 1 Quote
Soshin Posted February 12, 2024 Report Posted February 12, 2024 On 2/10/2024 at 8:50 AM, Iaido dude said: I wonder if the lid got swapped from another or it’s simply in error. That is a possibility. I have gotten and seen some old boxes with mismatched lids or replacement lids before. Quote
Iaido dude Posted February 12, 2024 Author Report Posted February 12, 2024 Doesn’t make sense either. The hakogaki description inside lid is correct. The “kinai” on outside of lid not correct it would seem. That seems to be a mistake. Quote
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