sugopomedoro Posted October 6 Report Posted October 6 Well I have a big dilemma I purchased 2 Nihonto from a dealer in Japan before the new rules and I’ve been waiting for them to come back from shinsa which has only just happened one was papered Kanenori Mino school Koto period and the dealer stated that he couldn’t send them to the UK however he knew of a sword dealer in France who would be happy to forward them to me in the UK. The swords arrived with the French dealer and he proposed to send them to me in the United Kingdom under the description of wall hangers. he told me that he’d successfully managed to get a number of antique Sword into England under the same tactic. only one of the swords received papers and with them being in Japanese any customs official would have a lot of trouble understanding them. I have asked him to withhold from sending them while I try to understand what the consequences could be if they were to be detected by customs. What do people think might happen? Would I be prosecuted or would they be seized or would they be sent back? or have I just lost a large sum of money due to this current state of affairs. Quote
Shugyosha Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 On 8/16/2024 at 2:57 PM, Matsunoki said: No room in our prisons so you’re safe Brian. Not true - they’ve just released 1,500 murderers and rapists to make room for those adjudged guilty of “thought crime”. 3 Quote
Alex A Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 17 hours ago, sugopomedoro said: Well I have a big dilemma I purchased 2 Nihonto from a dealer in Japan before the new rules and I’ve been waiting for them to come back from shinsa which has only just happened one was papered Kanenori Mino school Koto period and the dealer stated that he couldn’t send them to the UK however he knew of a sword dealer in France who would be happy to forward them to me in the UK. The swords arrived with the French dealer and he proposed to send them to me in the United Kingdom under the description of wall hangers. he told me that he’d successfully managed to get a number of antique Sword into England under the same tactic. only one of the swords received papers and with them being in Japanese any customs official would have a lot of trouble understanding them. I have asked him to withhold from sending them while I try to understand what the consequences could be if they were to be detected by customs. What do people think might happen? Would I be prosecuted or would they be seized or would they be sent back? or have I just lost a large sum of money due to this current state of affairs. The Japanese dealer could have used UPS, as far as im aware at the moment. Sending them described as wall hangers is a stupid idea. Loads of advice on this forum. Still a mystery to me why folks go about it assways then wonder why it all goes **** up. The dealer should know better. See if can use UPS and label correctly with correct tariff code Quote
Brian Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 Agree, labeling incorrectly is the LAST thing I would consider. "Legal and verified antique Japanese sword, exempt from legislation, documents inside" or something similar. 2 Quote
Lewis B Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 2 hours ago, Shugyosha said: Not true - they’ve just released 1,500 murderers and rapists to make room for those adjudged guilty of “thought crime”. Minority Report is becoming a reality. Quote
sugopomedoro Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 Thank you all. I called UPS and they confirmed that the antiques could be shipped to the UK and I would need to fill in an antique declaration form after it arrives especially as they are curved blades over 50cm long. only one of the swords was sent to shinsa so only one is papered. Is the antique declaration for sufficient to have it released ? Will I be required to provide receipts of purchase from Japan ? the absolute last thing I want is to be prosecuted for importing illegal goods ! That needs to be avoided at all costs thanks in advance Quote
Lewis B Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 Also remember UK is a 3rd country now so UPS will process import duties and VAT for a shipment from France. Hopefully getting the correct 5% VAT applied for antiques will be easier for you than it's appearing to be here in Germany. My last purchase is sitting in the EMS/DHL hub waiting for a 21% VAT payment. Once paid I can start a claim for an incorrect tax levy, which should be 7% for antiques over 100 years old. Fingers crossed. Quote
Alex A Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 Provide as much info as possible for customs. That includes any invoices, descriptions, dealer details, contact details etc etc. Provide your details, your age etc. The reason you are importing it, as in private collector of antiques. For a smooth import, dont leave any questions unanswered for customs. Declare full value Cheers Quote
sugopomedoro Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 26 minutes ago, Alex A said: Provide as much info as possible for customs. That includes any invoices, descriptions, dealer details, contact details etc etc. Provide your details, your age etc. The reason you are importing it, as in private collector of antiques. For a smooth import, dont leave any questions unanswered for customs. Declare full value Cheers Many thanks It was originally purchased in Japan from a dealer there. I will have to ask for invoice because he took payment by credit card. im made particularly afraid by another post on here from 2022 where the chaps swords were seized by BF and he had to jump though many complex hoops in order to have his shipment restored. His name was Lareon. The dealer in France said he is happy to attach the following “ can wrote you à letter in english, saying that, as a registered antique arms expert in France, working for the CEA, i attest that both sword are older than 100 year old” would this be enough ? as well of course as invoices, dealer information, descriptions and contact info reslly worried about them being seized now Quote
paul griff Posted October 7 Report Posted October 7 I would drive to France and pick them up at the same time enjoying the food and wine… Regards, Paul. 3 Quote
sugopomedoro Posted October 14 Report Posted October 14 On 10/7/2024 at 4:38 PM, Alex A said: Provide as much info as possible for customs. That includes any invoices, descriptions, dealer details, contact details etc etc. Provide your details, your age etc. The reason you are importing it, as in private collector of antiques. For a smooth import, dont leave any questions unanswered for customs. Declare full value Cheers OK I just got off the phone to UPS again, They confirmed their process which I will summarise here - I am to ship the swords with the correct description of "Antique sword curved over 50cm made before 1954 and over 100 years old made by traditional methods of hand made swords" Describe myself as a private collector (I will add my To-Ken membership) I use the correct HS code 9706.00.00 Include purchase receipt that should describe the antique accurately - still have to get these. And then send it from france, My contect there is a member of the CEA and will attest by letter to the age of the swords too. Upon arrival UPS will send me an Antique declaration form as well as a sword declaration form. Clearance will be done within UPS apparently and with said forms should clear without issue so I have been told. Does this all sound OK? I am really worried about potential seizure and the ensuing complications. What is worrying is being able to prove the authenticity if questioned. I have read on here that most fly through without complication as was the case when I got my first sword from the USA some 4 years ago but have things changed ? Has anyone recently received a a nihonto in the mail ? I dont have the ability to drive over there and collect. Quote
Lewis B Posted October 14 Report Posted October 14 1 hour ago, sugopomedoro said: I am to ship the swords with the correct description of "Antique sword curved over 50cm made before 1954 and over 100 years old made by traditional methods of hand made swords" Describe myself as a private collector (I will add my To-Ken membership) I use the correct HS code 9706.00.00 Include purchase receipt that should describe the antique accurately - still have to get these. I did all of this when I had a sword shipped via EMS/DHL to Germany from Japan 2 weeks ago. No issues taking delivery but the German Zoll (Customs & Excise) changed the HS Code from 9706.10 to 9307.00, which does not take into account the antique status of the blade. All the supporting documentation and declarations from the NBTHK, Nihonto dealer, with translations were ignored. So instead of being charged the correct 7% tax rate they slapped on 19%. I have 30 days to contest the change and am currently doing that. The difference is only about 650 Euros but there is a principle involved. Hopefully your shipment is handled correctly and without these headaches. 1 Quote
Alex A Posted October 14 Report Posted October 14 Ronen, should be ok, UPS are pretty good Cheers. Quote
sugopomedoro Posted October 14 Report Posted October 14 21 hours ago, Alex A said: Ronen, should be ok, UPS are pretty good Cheers. Thanks for the replies. There are 2 Nihonto, one has papers the other doesnt - would this also be OK ? I am attaching an invoice for the Waki, is the format and content acceptable - sorry for being so worried I just don't want trouble. Quote
Alex A Posted October 14 Report Posted October 14 Looks good, What you need to remember Ronen is that what you are doing is perfectly legal and owning them is perfectly legal. The **** with Royal mail seems to have everyone over panicky. Chill out. Quote
sugopomedoro Posted October 14 Report Posted October 14 26 minutes ago, Alex A said: Looks good, What you need to remember Ronen is that what you are doing is perfectly legal and owning them is perfectly legal. The **** with Royal mail seems to have everyone over panicky. Chill out. Yes you are of course correct, what got me panicing was the thread on here that someone posted having had theirs seized by border force and having threats of court action amounting to £2500 and the hoops they had to jump through to get the back. of course the RM thing had its effect too but its mainly the threat of BF seeing it as illegal. He also used UPS Thanks for your encouracement. I have 2 choices - get my contact in France to send them or have them sent to a non appreciator friend in France who would not know how to care for them Quote
Alex A Posted October 14 Report Posted October 14 UPS have their own customs, they will deal with it. If i were you i would remove the invoice above with your details. Quote
Shugyosha Posted October 14 Report Posted October 14 Hi Ronen, I'd delete the invoice with all of your personal details on it if I were you. You don't want that stuff on the internet these days. 1 Quote
sugopomedoro Posted October 15 Report Posted October 15 Thanks - tried to remove but dont have edit facility - requested assistance from admin Quote
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