Royal Mail (UK) banning all bladed items from 22nd April 2024

[Alex A]

Just wrote to the local MP, happens to be Labour.

 

Ps, a lot more straight forward than anticipated.

 

 

[Matsunoki]

59 minutes ago, Alex A said:

happens to be Labour.

Mine is a Tory, soon to be out of a job and out of power and thus a waste of time…..no change there.
This type of headline grabbing political vote grabbing woke ignorance and disregard just shows how utterly stupid they are. To hell with law abiding citizens. 
……and as for Parcelforce…..who owns them?…….the Govt! - and I suspect their knife ban is the result of a back door nudge from the Govt.

[Alex A]

Just hope someone sees sense regarding valuable antiques/ART swords.

 

Even a permit system for serious collectors.

 

Guess we will see.

[Samurai Art]

The Dunblane incident led to the UK implementing strict regulations, including a ban on handguns for most. With Labour's stance shifting as elections approach, a similar scenario might unfold with swords.

As a dealer, I've decided to offload my nihonto stock internationally and focus solely on Japanese armour. Dealing with swords has become more trouble than it's worth and I don't welcome the risk.

To UK collectors and Token members, brace yourselves - changes are on the horizon.

Winter is coming!

[Alex A]

Just been reading various online news articles on the topic.

 

Main discussion mentioning machete and Zombie knives being too easy to purchase.

 

Personally, not bothered if they ban all that, including modern Chinese replica Japanese swords.

 

To be honest, surprised that's all still available.

 

Some in government talking sense. Like as mentioned here, if someone intent on harming others then its easy just to use something else.

 

Like Brian's spoon analogy.

 

Did mention in the letter to the MP that our Antique swords are very valuable, very old and been passed down through many generations. 

 

Had a reply,, will update with any further discussion with the MP, Lisa Nandy.

 

Thank you for your e-mail.

I receive hundreds of e-mails, letters and telephone calls every day, as well as meeting local residents at my advice centres and on the doorstep. I try to respond to all queries and problems as quickly as possible and I hope to respond to your e-mail shortly. Parliamentary protocol states that Members of Parliament can only deal with issues on behalf of their own constituents so please ensure that you have included in your e-mail your name, full postal address, a contact telephone number and any relevant reference numbers.

 

 

[Paz]

Hi @Alex A

 

I do hate these discussions as a new collector and a martial artist. 

 

From reading Facebook. The sword used in this horrendous act was an already banned replica according to one specialist. An article by nine circles has been published which mentions that iaitos used in iaido are in jepordy as they are not traditionally made. The sword used in this act was not a legitimate sword ie antique or handforged it seems. 

 

Martial artist who practice sword arts carry insurances provided by the BKA. Their is talk of a license system to all sword carriers.

 

Now this may even include religious groups who practice martial arts such as gatka ie sikhs. 

 

But the best logic is yes. That zombie and machete swords were easier to get hold of and don't have much antique presence as say indian and Japanese swords. 

 

Somebody on youtube did contact their PM and received a reply saying that fencing won't be effected. So I don't know if that includes iaido. 

 

But I'm sure people in the government know. 🙄. That Japanese swords are historically important and worth high value. Works of cultural heritage. Imagine telling the Japanese ambassador in the UK that they are melting Japanese cultural property. 

 

A permit system or license seems the  best option. As with guns. 

 

[Lewis B]

5 hours ago, Brian said:

Yip. As expected. It was the sword that killed him. Not the person. Just like spoons make people fat.
You guys in the UK are in so much trouble. My sympathies.
 

Been on that downward spiral for decades. Glad I left in the early '90's and never looked back. Although I do enjoy the political histrionics as an outsider looking in. Same goes for the USA which has its own leadership and societal issues. 

[Mark C]

I'm normally a positive person but I'm starting to believe the UK is finished, Does not matter who governs it, they are all crap and this bloody pink and fluffy culture we are being forced into.

 

So, I can use and keep smallbore and full bore rifles for target shooting but might not be able to keep swords - Absolute madness

 

All the best

 

 

[Lewis B]

11 minutes ago, Mark C said:

I'm normally a positive person but I'm starting to believe the UK is finished, Does not matter who governs it, they are all crap and this bloody pink and fluffy culture we are moving into.

 

So, I can use and keep smallbore and full bore rifles for target shooting but might not be able to keep swords - Absolute madness

 

All the best

 

 

Just goes to show who has the strongest lobby group. A few sword collectors are inconsequential. 

[Ynot]

[Bugyotsuji]

13 hours ago, Paz said:

The sword used in this horrendous act was an already banned replica according to one specialist.

'Specialist'?

Searched everywhere throughout the news, but no clear photos and no description of what was used. Nothing from the Police. As if it doesn't matter to anyone. 

 

In prison, inmates will sharpen anything, including Brian's spoon above, for perceived grudges, self-defense, etc. 

 

Labour's 'action plan' above is full of buzzwords, and reeks of hypocrisy. Any of the UK's political parties could have written that. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

The world is going to be a depressing place for those who remembered when sanity reigned.

[Brian]

"The Government's approach to killer knives"

That says it all. I weep for the former Great Britain. RIP.

[The Blacksmith]

That is like saying that if someone dies in a road accident, it is obviously the fault of the car manufacturer! 

[Bugyotsuji]

Meanwhile, in Japan.

Man arrested for assaulting father with wooden sword - Japan Today

HOKKAIDO

Police in Abira, Hokkaido, have arrested a 24-year-old unemployed man on suspicion of assaulting his 57-year-old father by beating him with a wooden sword. The incident occurred at around 7:40 p.m. Saturday, Hokkaido Broadcasting Corp reported. The man’s mother called 110 and said her son was acting violently toward his father, repeatedly beating him in the back with a wooden sword as he sat in a chair.

The victim suffered minor injuries, police said. The suspect admitted to the charge and was quoted by police as saying perhaps he went a little too far. Police are questioning the family members about the cause of the dispute.

© Japan Today

[The Blacksmith]

If that was the UK Piers, they'd be wanting to ban trees now!

[Abaris]

Maybe not trees, but sticks for sure.

[Akitombo]

Just as an update to this topic. We had to halt our shipping of swords due to Parcelforce stopping sending within the UK as well as overseas.

DHL have said they will ship, as long as you open a business account.

We will see how this goes.

I still feel that they may get pressure from the Government to stop.

[The Blacksmith]

The business account idea gets round any possible problems with shipping to  private address I suppose. many dealers already wouldn't ship to a private address in the UK.

[matei]

Hi all... as a newcomer to this interest, it is quite disheartening to see RM's blanket approach to shipping anything bladed.  That being said... has anyone had any success with other shippers?  I no longer have a ltd company nor a business, so I would daresay a DHL business account is out of the question for the average hobbyist.  

 

I encountered a similar issue with another interest - collecting high-end guitars, many of which contain parts made from Brazilian Rosewood.  There were problems with the import and handling of any instruments containing that wood, due to its inclusion on CITES list etc.  Eventually found ways around it, but guitars and swords are two very different things.

 

 

 

 

[Samurai Art]

Royal Mail will transport your swords as long as they are blunted. Account Customers only. 
So EMS for a private individual won't work. Will the Token Societies become smuggling rings now, backdooring these via Ireland? (popcorn ready) as that was a joke.

 

 

https://www.parcelfo...hm4oW7SV-UazSb3wRwj1

Bladed items that are: commonly used for sporting activities; commonly used for religious ceremonial purposes (must be blunted); sgian dubhs (must be blunted and for ornamental purposes); being sent to a recognised museum; commonly used in historical re-enactment (must be blunted); commonly used in theatrical productions (must be blunted); and antiques. Note: in order to avoid your item being treated as prohibited, in the event of any checks it would be helpful to include supporting documentation to enable us to verify the relevant permitted use listed above. 

 

[matei]

It seems to me - and I’m not trained in the art of legal interpretation- that the last bit “and antiques”  leaves a loophole where perhaps they don’t need to be blunted?

[The Blacksmith]

50 minutes ago, matei said:

It seems to me - and I’m not trained in the art of legal interpretation- that the last bit “and antiques”  leaves a loophole where perhaps they don’t need to be blunted?

The problem is Mat, that 'plod' in the post office will probably just see an edged weapon and act accordingly. Many of them don't know their own rules unfortunately. They tried this before, but bayonets were not included, but 'plod'in the post office didn't know this, and threatened to destroy my parcels!

 

The parcel with the two bayonets that I ordered from the UK, arrived this morning, safe and sound. These were posted on the 3rd of May. Now the interesting bit, as there are two more that I am after from the Uk.............. I'll keep you informed.

[Samurai Art]

I would interpret "and" as inclusive in this context. Note that these are Parcel Force regulations, not the LAW. The next step is to find an alternative solution. I hope the esteemed Token will take the lead in providing guidance to its members and the community.

One potential solution is using an independent courier to personally transport swords to and from Japan by aircraft. I am aware of two individuals planning to offer this service soon. This applies to swords being sent to Japan for restoration or certification, as well as swords that have been purchased. Both require a declaration at Customs using the red channel. Antiques are subject to a 5% import VAT using an HS Code such as 97061000.

If a sword is sent to an EU state, it will incur duties. If it is then sent to the UK, it will be subject to import fees again.

I wish you all the best with these challenges, as I have relocated my stock to Dubai. The UK market is in decline.

[Gakusee]

2 hours ago, MIFUNE said:

I would interpret "and" as inclusive in this context. Note that these are Parcel Force regulations, not the LAW. The next step is to find an alternative solution. I hope the esteemed Token will take the lead in providing guidance to its members and the community.

 

David, 

And how can “the esteemed Token” provide guidance when Parcelforce or Royal Mail might themselves not be clear on how they apply the rules? And when different texts imply disparate interpretations? For instance the attached document clear mentions swords are “prohibited” while the website (which you have correctly quoted above) contradicts by stipulating that antiques are excluded. So, antiques, if documented for example with a combination of NBTHK certificates or NTHK certificates and a photocopy of a torokusho and clearly described as precious art objects of historic or cultural importance and not to be used as weapons, should in theory be accepted. 
 

UK destinations

Prohibited Bladed Items cannot be sent. However, other Knives or Blades as defined by s141A Criminal Justice Act 1988 or ‘Bladed Products’ as defined by s41 of the Offensive Weapons Act 2019 can be sent using the Age Verification service. These include but are not limited to any knife or knife blade, including cutlery knives, bread knives, knives that can be used for hobbies and trades (for instance, utility knives and snap-off cutters, gardening, camping, lock knives, bushcraft and farming tools with a blade or any other trade tool that could commonly be described as a knife), butcher knives (including meat cleavers), felling axes and razor blades.

Note: this excludes folding pocket knives where the cutting edge of its blade does not exceed 3 inches (7.62cm) or razor blades permanently enclosed in a cartridge or housing where less than 2mm is exposed which can be sent without using Age Verification service.

Please note: It is the senders’ responsibility to ensure compliance with the law.

The following links to the legislation and guidance may assist but Parcelforce prohibitions and restrictions regarding the sending of bladed items must also be followed:
Criminal Justice Act 1988Opens in new window
Offensive Weapons Act 2019Opens in new window
Statutory guidance: Offensive Weapons Act 2019Opens in new window

 

 

The following are not prohibited and will instead be treated as Restricted Bladed Items, provided the only intended use is one of the permitted uses listed below: 

Bladed items that are: commonly used for sporting activities; commonly used for religious ceremonial purposes (must be blunted); sgian dubhs (must be blunted and for ornamental purposes); being sent to a recognised museum; commonly used in historical re-enactment (must be blunted); commonly used in theatrical productions (must be blunted); and antiques. Note: in order to avoid your item being treated as prohibited, in the event of any checks it would be helpful to include supporting documentation to enable us to verify the relevant permitted use listed above. 

Important: Items intended by the person sending or receiving it to cause injury to a person are always prohibited and will be treated/handled as such regardless of whether or not they fall into one of the permitted uses above. 

 

 

Finally , it is one thing what is legal to be owned (the law) and what a private carrier (Royal Mail and its subsidiary Parcelforce) decides to do. 
 

So, theoretically there is the antiques loophole above but one needs to pre-educate Parcelforce, thoroughly (over-)document and rely on everyone in the Parcelforce chain having the same understanding and interpretation……

parcelforce-worldwide-account-our-prohibited-and-restricted-goods.pdf

[Matsunoki]

Edit…wrote this before reading Michael’s comments above. Must pay more attention!
 

There is a lot of focus on importing and exporting swords but the volumes involved will be massively exceeded by the volume of swords being sent within the UK. Dealers, Auctioneers, Collectors etc

 

Ive just has a very quick look at what I think are the latest “prohibited items” definitions used by -

The Post Office

Parcelforce

Royal Mail

……remember these all operate as separate companies and with their own definitions.

 

Unsurprisingly they all appear to be different and use different criteria and wordings. I even found two different Parcelforce definitions on their own website.

 

Frankly it looks totally chaotic and uncoordinated….surprise surprise. 

 

The chances of all the relevant employees of these separate companies understanding the guidelines is zero. The chances of getting clarification from them or the Government is zero. It’s going to be crap shoot……

MASSIVELY compounded when UK Border Force get involved.

 

I do wonder if (within the UK) either the PO or Parcelforce intend to X-ray/check what is actually inside packages?

 

Anyone else had a look at the different definitions? Did you figure it out? 

 

Edited May 24 by Matsunoki
Added edit note

[pcfarrar]

7 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

I do wonder if (within the UK) either the PO or Parcelforce intend to X-ray/check what is actually inside packages?

 

Royal Mail and Parcelforce both x-ray parcels. Not sure if they do every one but they have automated rapid scanning machines.

[Swords]

I’m reading these post and am a bit upset because I’m trying to sell a sword to a guy in England I never had any issues selling to France ! 

However if they are using X-ray scanners it

doesn’t really matter ! 

Maybe they should ban kitchen knives next 

They can be concealed !!

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

[The Blacksmith]

I have just ordered a bayonet from a dealer in the UK, who informs me that he has only been using UPS for a while now anyway, without any problems. Though I still have to find the total cost of the shipment. My last parcel via Parcel Force was just £20.

[Alex A]

Didn't hear back from the local Labour MP, what a surprise. Did hear back from the messenger service asking did i get a reply. Replied, NO.

 

Did hear back from Aoi Art in Japan, see below...................

 

We have not shipped a sword very recently after 24th Jan.

We have heard the news that the UK stopped EMS.

But still, we can ship a sword by alternative method(company), Fedex or UPS.

 

Kind regards,

Aoi Art