Royal Mail (UK) banning all bladed items from 22nd April 2024

[Alex A]

Yes Michael, definitely.

 

I cant find on their website the info you provide above Michael, can you remember where you found it?

 

At least UPS still accept modern swords.

 

 

[Matsunoki]

1 hour ago, Alex A said:

cant find on their website the info you provide above Michael, can you remember where you found it?

Neither can I. Are Parcelforce and Royal Mail using the same criteria?…..the Parcelforce website is very confusing and I can see no mention of “antiques” in the bladed weapons section.

[Matsunoki]

Have (again) just compared the relevant Parcelforce vs Royal Mail “restricted/prohibited items” definitions on their Websites. 
They appear to be totally different and this is a screenshot of the Parcelforce one that clearly says “No” against both UK and International sendings for bladed items. 

Confusing? 

[Alex A]

Aye, see where it came from now.

Prohibited goods - items you can't send through the post (royalmail.com)

 

Perhaps antiques just for internal UK shipping, needs clarification.

[Gakusee]

17 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

Have (again) just compared the relevant Parcelforce vs Royal Mail “restricted/prohibited items” definitions on their Websites. 
They appear to be totally different and this is a screenshot of the Parcelforce one that clearly says “No” against both UK and International sendings for bladed items. 

Confusing? 

The definitions have been static for a while. 
However, the guidance I posted above is what has been updated. 

[Matsunoki]

50 minutes ago, Gakusee said:

The definitions have been static for a while. 
However, the guidance I posted above is what has been updated. 

Hi Michael

The trouble is Royal Mail have indeed  updated their conditions on their website as per the info you posted but Parceforce haven’t and they operate as a separate Co. 
I guess we need to know for sure that Parcelforce, who handle many incoming overseas parcels (as well as internal UK) now operate as per the Royal Mail updated conditions. The fact that Royal Mail are updated but Parcelforce are not is troublesome to say the least.

Makes we wonder if they understand what they are doing, let alone us paying customers understand. 
Not being awkward but having been on the end of several internal and international import problems first hand in the last two years I am still uncomfortable with this apparent contradiction in conditions. 

[Gakusee]

Well, Colin, I understand completely. There will be a lot of confusion at least for the coming months until matters settle. For now we should assume things might not work out and be prepared to do a lot of convincing….

[Matsunoki]

24 minutes ago, Gakusee said:

For now we should assume things might not work out and be prepared to do a lot of convincing….

In my previous working life I learned (and taught others) never to assume anything🙂…it often leads to tears or worse.

I wonder, could the Token, as our representative body ask Parcelforce outright if they will ship genuine Nihonto (ie either antique or modern but traditionally made) …

1. within the UK?

2. exporting from the UK?

3. importing into the UK?

At least that would bring a degree of clarity.

 

Maybe ask the same directly of Royal Mail?

[Gakusee]

1 hour ago, Matsunoki said:

In my previous working life I learned (and taught others) never to assume anything🙂…it often leads to tears or worse.

I wonder, could the Token, as our representative body ask Parcelforce outright if they will ship genuine Nihonto (ie either antique or modern but traditionally made) …

1. within the UK?

2. exporting from the UK?

3. importing into the UK?

At least that would bring a degree of clarity.

 

Maybe ask the same directly of Royal Mail?

Not quite   The companies need to figure out themselves first before we ask working people to spend hours of their lives on the phone trying to get to someone who has an idea of what is going on. Not that some of the committee did not already try but there was not much luck….

[Brian]

Give any company the option between doing something that has a remote chance of backfiring on them liability wise, or taking the safe route and just saying no, they will go for no every time.
Asking anytime if they will or won't, you are going to get a no.

[Matsunoki]

1 hour ago, Gakusee said:

The companies need to figure out themselves first

We’ve got quite a wait then Michael, meantime it’s a gamble, often involving very expensive things and a hell of a lot of stress. 

Anyway, my thanks to you and all on the Ctte who have tried. It’s a thankless task asking. Maybe in due course write to both the Chairman and the CEO.

Ive had to do exactly that with a major International Co based in the UK. I said to them if they did not answer I would go to the media and re whatever answer they did actually give me, if it didn’t make sense I’d go to the media. I got an answer and it made sense. 

[Alex A]

Out of curiosity.

 

Made it easy for myself and just replied to Parcelforces last email regarding the sword ban.

 

Linked the Royal Mail update.

 

Told them this is great news for antique collectors, and asked if they are following with the update?.

 

Will see what comes back.

[Alex A]

Reply below. 

 

 

 

Dear Alex ,

 

Thank  you for your email .

 

Bladed items are still not allowed to be sent but do you normally send the same sort of antique swords and are you sending them inland and internationally .  My manager has said if you can send in photograph of the item, full description we can ask someone to double  check for you 

 

This information should be on our website 

 

Prohibited Bladed Items
Hunting/combat/survival type knives, daggers, movie knives that promote violence (such as Rambo or Crocodile Dundee style knives), replica fighting knives, throwing knives, machetes, swords, fantasy knives, knives with images or words that suggest use for violence, stiletto knives, battle axes, open razors/folding razors and any similar items are prohibited and cannot be sent. Also see Arms, Ammunition and Weapons.
The following are not prohibited and will instead be treated as Restricted Bladed Items, provided the only intended use is one of the permitted uses listed below:
 
Bladed items that are: commonly used for sporting activities; commonly used for religious ceremonial purposes (must be blunted); sgian dubhs (must be blunted and for ornamental purposes); being sent to a recognised museum; commonly used in historical re-enactment (must be blunted); commonly used in theatrical productions (must be blunted); and antiques. Note: in order to avoid your item being treated as prohibited, in the event of any checks it would be helpful to include supporting documentation to enable us to verify the relevant permitted use listed above.
 
Important: Items intended by the person sending or receiving it to cause injury to a person are always prohibited and will be treated/handled as such regardless of whether or not they fall into one of the permitted uses above. In addition, see Arms, Ammunition and Weapons which are also prohibited regardless of whether or not they fall into one of the permitted uses above.
 
For guidance on sending these types of items internationally please see bladed section under restricted

Bladed items –
“Knives” or “Blades” defined by s141A Criminal Justice Act 1988 or ‘Bladed Products’ as defined by s41 of Offensive Weapons Act 2019. Such items include, but are not limited to, any knife or knife blade, including cutlery knives, bread knives, knives that can be used for hobbies and trades (for instance, utility knives and snap-off cutters, gardening, camping, bushcraft and farming tools with a blade or any other trade tool that could commonly be described as a knife), butcher knives (including meat cleavers), felling axes, razor blades.

Sharp or pointed items –
(excludes: (i) knives prohibited under UK law - see Arms, Ammunition and Weapons - and (ii) Bladed items.) Includes, but not limited to scissors, mini chopper blades, food processor blades, sewing kits, knitting needles, syringes, chisels, piercing awls, saws, nails, pins, fishing hooks.  These items can be sent with packaging guidelines below:
•  Package appropriately so items present no risk to employees, other postal items or recipients.
•  Wrap heavy cardboard around sharp edges and points, strong enough to ensure that the contents do not pierce the outer packaging.
•  Wrap each item with cushioning material and place in a suitable outer container such as a padded envelope.
•  The sender's name and return address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging.

Please Note; Broken glass / broken ceramic items are prohibited from being posted.

 

 

Kind regards

Executive Customer Service Team 

Parcelforce Worldwide CEO Office

 

[Alex A]

Looking above, they have not updated or we are looking at the wrong site.

 

Just sent her a link and asked, all a bit confusing.

 

Retail Prohibitions and Restrictions | Parcelforce Worldwide

[Alex A]

Next response below. It says it in black and white about antiques above in the mail. Again, said i cant find that info on a Parcelforce website and asked to speak to a manager. Mentioned they cant be blunted as valuable and need to be preserved, as is.

 

I think Antiques are ok, once we see this on a Parcelforce website

 

 

Dear Alex ,

 

I am not expert ,I think they will as long as it's blade is blunted .  I have forward your email onto my manager but I think they will just say what I have already sent on to you and say you will need to look and read the prohibited goods on our website  . 

 

Do you have an account with Parcelforce  ?

 

 

Kind regards

 

Executive Customer Service Team 

Parcelforce Worldwide CEO Office

 

[Matsunoki]

Not sure who are more confused, us or them. What a stupid mess.

What the hell good will it do sending them an image…..anyone there likely to have a clue what they are looking at? 

They say “should be on our website”…..did they check?….obviously not.

Thanks for trying Alex. The Token Society position is to wait for them (Parcelforce etc) to sort themselves out. Personally I don’t think they are capable of sorting themselves out. 
🤬

[Alex A]

I think antiques are ok, its just that the lady I'm talking to is not up on the situation, so to speak.

 

Was kind of tempted throw "modern traditionally made swords" in the spin but not great timing. lol 

 

On a plus note, at least more communication than last time i tried.

 

Ps, No insurance anyways with these guys so i wouldn't use them internally anyways now. Its just for dealers sending from Japan, that's my concern. Though there is still UPS for that.

 

Just thinking, the more options the better.,

 

 

[Alex A]

As said, wrote to them explaining that their email included "antique swords" but it was not on any of their websites?

 

Reply below.

 

Dear Alex  ,

 

Ok thank you for the update .

 

Kind regards

 

 

Executive Customer Experience Team

Parcelforce Worldwide CEO Office

 

 

 

[Matsunoki]

Shouldn’t they be updating us? Incompetence and a “couldn’t care less” attitude. 
Someone is trying to buy Royal Mail (and thus also Parceforce)….hope he succeeds and wakes them up a bit (after sacking most of the useless management)

[Alex A]

 Exactly Colin.

 

 

 

 

[Alex A]

Just called in for an update.

 

Heard UPS delivered shinsakuto tanto from Tokyo with no issues. I was told beware UPS giving confirmation dates of delivery before customs clearance. He booked a days hol to receive shipment at home but no show. CHECK "OUT FOR DELIVERY" in tracking.

 

Secondly, forget parcelforce, see last email below.

 

Dear Alex,

 

I am sorry for the delay in replying but we have only just received a reply..............................

 

We have double checked with everyone again for you and I am sorry but they have said No we are sorry but we don't permit any bladed items including antique swords for Import, Export , or on any of  Inland services they are all prohibited.

 

Kind regards

 

Executive Customer Service Team

Parcelforce Worldwide CEO Office

 

 

Lastly, all info to importers can be found on this website. Get it wrong and expect hassle.

[Matsunoki]

Thanks Alex. Your persistence has clarified the issue and proves that it’s best not to assume anything. 
It’s not the answer we wanted but at least we now know. 
The issue of how Customs/Border Force  will interpret these various laws and guidances is another matter entirely. They after all are Govt. employees and  are not likely to “take any chances”.

There may be (more) trouble ahead.

 

Edited August 16 by Matsunoki
Typo

[Bugyotsuji]

Once they’ve contacted each other to check, it’s easier and safer for them all to fall into line, eliminate any doubt, and say “No” more clearly than before.

[Brian]

Militaria friend of mine just shipped a bunch of bayonets to the UK.
He wasn't happy at all when I told him they will likely get stopped and shipped back once they arrive there.
I won't comment further on the UK and their current actions. I'm scared they extradite and jail me for having an opinion on social media.

[Matsunoki]

5 hours ago, Brian said:

I'm scared they extradite and jail me for having an opinion on social media.

No room in our prisons so you’re safe Brian. 

[Lewis B]

43 minutes ago, Matsunoki said:

No room in our prisons so you’re safe Brian. 

I'm sure Brian will be very comfortable in 2 tier Kier's new top security prison accommodation. I bet that gets Netflix.

[Bugyotsuji]

Awwww.... bars on the windows, no fair, even white ones!

[Matsunoki]

1 hour ago, Lewis B said:

top security prison accommodation

That is far far better than many of our citizens enjoy, especially the elderly or disabled. That just shows how screwed we are. 
Where is that image of? 

[Bugyotsuji]

That looks like my Alma Mater, but they’ve sure done it up swell.

[Matsunoki]

8 minutes ago, Bugyotsuji said:

That looks like my Alma Mater, but they’ve sure done it up swell.

And what did you learn there Piers during  your presumably short stay? Doubtless your fellow guests had interesting skills🙂