Royal Mail (UK) banning all bladed items from 22nd April 2024

[matei]

That is intriguing, UPS or FedEx.  Forgive my lack of experience in this regard, is it possible to get a courier such as UPS to handle end-to-end?  
 

I’ve had things shipped from abroad via UPS but suddenly had Parcelfarce handle the UK delivery.

[Alex A]

I know UPS ships end to end and has their own customs clearance.

 

Same with DHL with one last year.

 

Had one from Fedx recently and pretty sure they delivered it to the door.

[Brian]

Both have their own clearing divisions through customs. Usually their own people deliver (at least here) but they may subcontract out delivery on occasion.
Many dealers have contracts with businesses and are able to ship stuff that they otherwise wouldn't. The fact that they do it for Aoi doesn't mean they do it routinely. I expect if the average person request to ship a knife or sword, they will be told no. Same heere with them, they have agreements with some vendors.

[Alex A]

Makes me wonder if some dealers with contracts will step up in the future to ship stuff for average Joe

 

Obviously for a fee.

 

Ps, not looked into the ins and out of it but is getting listed with a courier as a "antiques trader" a big deal?, as in do it yourself

[Alex A]

After several beers, this idea cropped up.

 

As for future when maybe things get tighter.

 

Folks in the UK, form a business, share any incurred costs

 

Maybe Token society get involved, whoever.

 

Any swords shipped get shipped through business account.

 

Problem solved 

 

Might be over/under thinking this, just ideas.

 

In other words, if being an average Joe is going to be a future problem, the average Joe needs to leave the equation.

[matei]

I did ask Pack & Ship if they would handle the shipment of a sword from the US to the UK, and they flat-out refused, even when I pointed out it is except from the offensive weapon ban (it is pre 1954, traditionally made).  Really frustrating.

 

*** update *** 

When I pointed out the blade’s size exemption they did come back and provide an estimate.  I think I could fly economy to to the US and back for that amount, but it is a possible way forward 🤣 

[The Blacksmith]

I heard back from the dealer regarding the bayonet that I am buying from the UK, and the UPS price was also just £20.   

[matei]

I've got a sword coming in from the US via UPS, so I'll update the group how I get on.  Fingers crossed it goes w/o a hitch.  

[matei]

Ok, wee update.  Shipment arrived in UK, at Donington where it is in "import scan" state.  Was supposed to arrive today by 12:00, but doubtful.

 

I called UPS and to my surprise got through to someone, who put me in touch with someone in the broker team.  They made some cryptic comments and said they'd send me some forms via email for customs, which would help "speed things up".  So far I haven't received anything.  I did offer to stay on the phone so I could ensure the email arrived correctly however the agent declined.

 

 

[Alex A]

At least its here and at least there's only a few forms to fill in.

 

Sounds good to me.

[matei]

1 hour ago, Alex A said:

At least its here and at least there's only a few forms to fill in.

 

Sounds good to me.

Said forms never materialised, so rang in again to this call centre...  Fella with whom I spoke this time said he is going to send me the necessary "Work of Art Form" and "Sword Declaration Form".  

 

*** update ***

 

Lo and behold, received said forms.  Ticked box on one to state it is of historical interest and on the other form stated it was made pre 1954 and of traditional make by hand.  

 

Send them back to Mr. UPS and hoping he actually 1) receives them and 2) does the needful...  

[Alex A]

Imported antique firearms with UPS and the forms usually do get sent via email.

 

The problem i had, i didn't have " open office" or what ever its called to complete the forms, so bought then cancelled it.

 

At least they are shipping swords and making the effort to do it right, perhaps something they need to become more accustomed to, by the sounds of it.

[matei]

33 minutes ago, Alex A said:

Imported antique firearms with UPS and the forms usually do get sent via email.

 

The problem i had, i didn't have " open office" or what ever its called to complete the forms, so bought then cancelled it.

 

At least they are shipping swords and making the effort to do it right, perhaps something they need to become more accustomed to, by the sounds of it.

Antique firearms are a rabbit hole that I have thus far resisted the temptation to explore...  for the time being!  One impractical hobby at a time for me 

 

No sooner did I scan the docs and send them back (along with pictures, descriptions etc) did I get the same email and forms from someone else entirely.  

 

Agent A quickly came back asking for the forms... again.  Pointed out that they were attached but nonetheless in the name of expediency re-sent only those forms.  

 

He did confirm (!?) that they'd been noted as received and if anything else required, they would be in touch.  

[matei]

OK, UPS notified me that there is a COD charge due, so paid that.  

I don’t often get things from UPS, certainly not this drawn out - so I imagine the next steps are it has to go through customs or something else?

[Alex A]

Bit confused, never had anything from them described as a COD charge.

 

Just import duty

 

Did the seller pay customs charges in advance or something?

 

[matei]

9 minutes ago, Alex A said:

Bit confused, never had anything from them described as a COD charge.

 

Just import duty

 

Did the seller pay customs charges in advance or something?

 

Not 100% sure, UPS is stating "Charges can include freight and freight-related charges and accessorials, government charges and brokerage duties and taxes".  

 

I've paid charges to UPS in the past, usually in a most unhelpful way the UPS man would show up and ask me to pay on the spot in cash... and then give me a number where I would have to get in touch with UPS to pay online or on the phone, and he would swing by a few hours later.  This time I got an SMS and an email as well.

 

Better I guess than FedEx, who would drop off the item and then I'd get a letter in the post some time later telling me I hadn't paid duty etc.

[Alex A]

Just an heads up about alternative couriers within the UK.

 

The buyer of the Kanetsugu organised a private courier, Action delivery services.

 

Not cheap at £160, same price they used to charge me for picking up and dropping off motorbikes within the UK. Price was for North to South of England.

 

Courier was outside of my house, bang on time.

 

Expensive, but if you don't want the worries of sending via the likes of Yodel and are sending expensive items then i suppose its acceptable.

 

Dropped off following morning for an 8am ish delivery.

 

 

[Brendan campbell]

We’ll talk about timing.i think the common problem here is Borderforce. I have had a sword blade with UPS , East Midlands airport since early December. 3 lots of emails , 3 lots of the same reply’s , and thanks to various friends , who have all had challenging projects to resolve with Borderforce .I have had on Tuesday a reply from a review agent confirming I can have my sword , tax to pay £188.00 . I believe also that as Borderforce are obviously a government dept , so are the post office , work it out . I am going into my bank tomorrow to transfer the funds to complete . Hopefully when my sword is in my hands. I will post some pictures . Good luck. 

[Alex A]

I always thought that UPS have their own customs, i say that because ive imported various antique pistols from the US and Europe and always dealt directly with UPS when it comes to paying any import duty, never been any mention of borderforce.

 

The reason folks have used them overseas is to avoid borderforce.

 

Maybe things have changed.

 

A friend is importing a tanto from Japan at the moment with UPS, will report back after seeing how that goes.

[Brendan campbell]

Fingers crossed 🤞

[The Blacksmith]

I bought a bayonet from the UK, sent by UPS and they handled everything, I just have a bill to pay of about £50 to them, but the bayonet was delivered to me about three weeks back, and the UPS bill followed. They dealt with all the customs etc.

I also bought a guitar from Spain a couple of years back, again it was sent by UPS, and again it was delivered to me and a bill sent to me afterwards. UPS handled all the customs etc.

[Alex A]

What bill Russ?, maybe you missed it

[The Blacksmith]

It seems that I did Alex!     As I recall, the bill for the guitar from Spain followed about three weeks later.  

[Alex A]

Wow, 3 weeks, 

 

Not like parcelforce then, don't think they ever delivered anything without sending the bill first, often miscalculated bills.

 

Thinking the way things are done in Japan with regards UPS may be done differently compared to something coming from other places such as US.

 

Something to bear in mind.

 

[Lewis B]

On 6/30/2024 at 12:33 PM, Alex A said:

 

 

Not like parcelforce then, don't think they ever delivered anything without sending the bill first, often miscalculated bills.

 

 

 

And likely not in your favour either 99% of the time.

[Gakusee]

People might or might not have realised that Royal Mail / Parcelforce recently amended their rules specifying that antiques are excluded from the shipping ban. See below. Of course, you will need to provide plenty of documentation and evidence about why an item is an antique and what its purpose is (presumably a collectible).  Since antiques are being treated as “restricted blades” by RoyalMail/Parcelforce, they will need to meet certain shipment / packaging conditions. See bottom of text below. 
 

So, let us stop complaining please and let us adapt and evolve. As humans, we have kept adapting to difficult conditions - we might not like them but we have found ways. 

 ————————————————

 

Prohibited Bladed Items
Hunting/combat/survival type knives, daggers, movie knives that promote violence (such as Rambo or Crocodile Dundee style knives), replica fighting knives, throwing knives, machetes, swords, fantasy knives, knives with images or words that suggest use for violence, stiletto knives, battle axes, open razors/folding razors and any similar items are prohibited and cannot be sent . Also see Weapons

 

The following are not prohibited and will instead be treated as Restricted Bladed Items, provided the only intended use is one of the permitted uses listed below:

Bladed items that are: commonly used for sporting activities; commonly used for religious or ceremonial purposes (must be blunted); sgian dubhs (must be blunted and for ornamental purposes); being sent to a recognised museum; commonly used in historical re-enactment (must be blunted); commonly used in theatrical productions (must be blunted); and antiques. Note: in order to avoid your item being treated as prohibited, in the event of any checks it would be helpful to include supporting documentation to enable us to verify the relevant permitted use listed above.

 

Restricted Bladed Items
Prohibited Bladed Items cannot be sent. However, other Knives or Blades as defined by s141A Criminal Justice Act 1988 or ‘Bladed Products’ as defined by s41 of the Offensive Weapons Act 2019 can be sent, provided certain conditions are met. These include but are not limited to any knife or knife blade, including cutlery knives, bread knives, knives that can be used for hobbies and trades (for instance, utility knives and snap-off cutters, gardening, camping, lock knives, bushcraft and farming tools with a blade or any other trade tool that could commonly be described as a knife), butcher knives (including meat cleavers), felling axes and razor blades.

• • These items may only be sent using the Royal Mail Tracked Age Verification service; this service is only available through Royal Mail Click & Drop
  • Items must be packaged appropriately so items present no risk to employees, other postal items or recipients.
  • Wrap heavy cardboard around sharp edges and points, strong enough to ensure that the contents do not pierce the outer packaging.
  • Wrap each item with cushioning material and place in a suitable outer container such as a padded envelope.
  • The sender's name and return address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging.
  • The outer packaging must be clearly marked to indicate a bladed item is enclosed and that it must not be handed to someone aged under 18.

  
  Note: this excludes folding pocket knives where the cutting edge of its blade does not exceed 3 inches (7.62cm) or razor blades permanently enclosed in a cartridge or housing where less than 2mm is exposed which can be sent without using Age verification service.

  Please Note: It is the senders’ responsibility to ensure compliance with the law.
  The following links to the legislation and guidance may assist but Royal Mail prohibitions and restrictions regarding the sending of bladed items must also be followed:
  Criminal Justice Act 1988
  Offensive Weapons Act 2019
  Statutory guidance: Offensive Weapons Act 2019

[Brendan campbell]

Reference my reply, 28thJune to blades in transit to the UK . I finally took delivery of my Takayama Nagamitsu blade on 14/07/2024. It started its journey from the USA last November 2023. I asked to collect it myself from their local depo in the West Midlands, having been told it would be there on the 14/07

i rang  them directly, they could not find it. I was told to ring back within the hour. Within the hour a tap on the front door , a great big brown Mercedes van , a very friendly delivery driver placed my very long awaited blade into my hands . YES !!!! 👏👏. After all this time , when I inspected the blade to my surprise.It was totally blunt , more a 24.5 inch club that a beautiful Gendaito. I did the week before buy a complete suit of high end Gunto fittings from Japan. They arrived 2 hours later, 😂😂can you imagine, I’m sliding the blade into the saya , oh my goodness they were a match made in heaven. All the seppa,s tsuba just need the minimal amount of fine tuning, handle again needs fitting, the big bonus, the habaki which was on the wooden blade inside the saya , very small amount of filling. Hopefully in the very near future, it will be back in original condition. The moral , keep chasing the the custom officers, and with the help several good sword friends , bombard them with all the knowledge we have versus the morons who do not have a clue, just following their guides lines and rules. In the end ask for a review officer to take control. It worked . Has this put me off buying from out side the UK !!! Sadly yes it has. 

[Alex A]

On 7/22/2024 at 8:59 PM, Gakusee said:

People might or might not have realised that Royal Mail / Parcelforce recently amended their rules specifying that antiques are excluded from the shipping ban. See below. Of course, you will need to provide plenty of documentation and evidence about why an item is an antique and what its purpose is (presumably a collectible).  Since antiques are being treated as “restricted blades” by RoyalMail/Parcelforce, they will need to meet certain shipment / packaging conditions. See bottom of text below. 
 

So, let us stop complaining please and let us adapt and evolve. As humans, we have kept adapting to difficult conditions - we might not like them but we have found ways. 

 ————————————————

 

 

Prohibited Bladed Items
Hunting/combat/survival type knives, daggers, movie knives that promote violence (such as Rambo or Crocodile Dundee style knives), replica fighting knives, throwing knives, machetes, swords, fantasy knives, knives with images or words that suggest use for violence, stiletto knives, battle axes, open razors/folding razors and any similar items are prohibited and cannot be sent . Also see Weapons

 

The following are not prohibited and will instead be treated as Restricted Bladed Items, provided the only intended use is one of the permitted uses listed below:

Bladed items that are: commonly used for sporting activities; commonly used for religious or ceremonial purposes (must be blunted); sgian dubhs (must be blunted and for ornamental purposes); being sent to a recognised museum; commonly used in historical re-enactment (must be blunted); commonly used in theatrical productions (must be blunted); and antiques. Note: in order to avoid your item being treated as prohibited, in the event of any checks it would be helpful to include supporting documentation to enable us to verify the relevant permitted use listed above.

 

 

Restricted Bladed Items
Prohibited Bladed Items cannot be sent. However, other Knives or Blades as defined by s141A Criminal Justice Act 1988 or ‘Bladed Products’ as defined by s41 of the Offensive Weapons Act 2019 can be sent, provided certain conditions are met. These include but are not limited to any knife or knife blade, including cutlery knives, bread knives, knives that can be used for hobbies and trades (for instance, utility knives and snap-off cutters, gardening, camping, lock knives, bushcraft and farming tools with a blade or any other trade tool that could commonly be described as a knife), butcher knives (including meat cleavers), felling axes and razor blades.

• • These items may only be sent using the Royal Mail Tracked Age Verification service; this service is only available through Royal Mail Click & Drop
  • Items must be packaged appropriately so items present no risk to employees, other postal items or recipients.
  • Wrap heavy cardboard around sharp edges and points, strong enough to ensure that the contents do not pierce the outer packaging.
  • Wrap each item with cushioning material and place in a suitable outer container such as a padded envelope.
  • The sender's name and return address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging.
  • The outer packaging must be clearly marked to indicate a bladed item is enclosed and that it must not be handed to someone aged under 18.

  
  Note: this excludes folding pocket knives where the cutting edge of its blade does not exceed 3 inches (7.62cm) or razor blades permanently enclosed in a cartridge or housing where less than 2mm is exposed which can be sent without using Age verification service.

  Please Note: It is the senders’ responsibility to ensure compliance with the law.
  The following links to the legislation and guidance may assist but Royal Mail prohibitions and restrictions regarding the sending of bladed items must also be followed:
  Criminal Justice Act 1988
  Offensive Weapons Act 2019
  Statutory guidance: Offensive Weapons Act 2019

 

Behind on this, that's great to hear. Think this doom and gloom thread had put me off reading further.

 

Anyways., will add this.

 

For Shinsakuto coming from Japan via EMS, EMS just returned a tanto to a dealer. It was all filled in correctly with the correct customs tariff.

 

The dealer has now shipped via UPS.

 

I will forward the info above to the dealer regarding antiques.

 

 

[Alex A]

Its a pity Parcelforce have not given leeway for traditionally forged blades such as Shinsakuto.

[Gakusee]

5 hours ago, Alex A said:

Its a pity Parcelforce have not given leeway for traditionally forged blades such as Shinsakuto.

Alex, at least it is a step in the right direction.