Royal Mail (UK) banning all bladed items from 22nd April 2024

[Matsunoki]

Fingers crossed……

[Mikaveli]

2 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

You are really saying parcelforce will deliver blades that are being imported (provided they are legal in the UK)…..but you also said…

……..which is not quite saying the same thing. Anyway it’s crazy that they will happily (?) handle imported blades but not those posted in the UK.

Not quite, Parcelforce will accept blades/ swords sent within the UK too - just not for retail customers (it will for account customers).

 

The restrictions in your screenshot is their retail policy, the text from me is their account policy (including EMS). Also, remember that originally someone thought that Royal Mail's policy would apply to Parcelforce because they "shared a network". This isn't the case - Parcelforce handle much more (despite restrictions) than Royal Mail allow.

 

As for confiscations, we're always at the mercy of ignorance. We can only ensure we've very clearly stated the contents (including ages / "date of manufacture"), its antique status and hope for the best. It's not uncommon to encounter police who don't know the law, let alone temporary/ casual staff at a parcel company.

[singh13]

Terrible news but it appears ParcelForce is also prohibiting blades starting May 7th

https://www.parcelfo...ons-and-restrictions

[Paz]

35 minutes ago, singh13 said:

Terrible news but it appears ParcelForce is also prohibiting blades starting May 7th

https://www.parcelfo...ons-and-restrictions

They are the same as royal mail. 

 

But apparently antique will be exempt. They backtracked on this. Paul martin asked this on Facebook. Worth reading 

[singh13]

13 minutes ago, Paz said:

They are the same as royal mail. 

 

But apparently antique will be exempt. They backtracked on this. Paul martin asked this on Facebook. Worth reading 

Happen to have a link? That's nice to hear

[Paz]

14 minutes ago, singh13 said:

Happen to have a link? That's nice to hear

Actually just read scholagladiatoria post on there. 

Unfortunately your original post stands. 

[pcfarrar]

Guess it's a return to militaria fairs for buying/selling swords in the UK.

 

 

 

[Abaris]

And how do you import blades for those fairs?

[Alex A]

UPS?

 

or the others.

 

Just to add, there doesn't seem any slow down with knife dealers. Sold 4 to a dealer at the arms fair a few weeks back. Im assuming when he sells them he wont be travelling around Britain delivering them in person.

[pcfarrar]

4 hours ago, Abaris said:

And how do you import blades for those fairs?

That’s not really an issue, the bigger problem is restoration. Sending swords to Japan has now become a lot harder. 

[Matsunoki]

Entrusting swords to parcelforce within the UK transforms me into a nervous wreck anyway. I’ve had all sorts of problems. Give the potential values involved and the damage to our nervous systems I guess it makes sense to shoulder the responsibility ourselves and maybe either deliver in person or meet halfway. At least the risk is removed….thats a worthwhile result. Of course not so easy in larger countries.

[Gakusee]

2 hours ago, pcfarrar said:

That’s not really an issue, the bigger problem is restoration. Sending swords to Japan has now become a lot harder. 

well, there is the in-person route. What Paul Martin used to do for the U.K. and perhaps someone like Paul Kremers can do in the future, if economical for him. 

[Brendan campbell]

As with most things in our lives at the moment, it will hit all our pockets in the UK . Not just restoration, but buying from all the auction houses. They cannot send out via the Post Office. So it’s use a courier or if within reason , have a jolly nice drive out to collect in person , and of course when buying abroad, the dreaded 1 brain cell person at British Border force , who cannot tell the difference between a genuine antique and a brand new shiny Chinese knock off . 😤

[Alex A]

There's also the specialist arms couriers. Did speak to one that will ship swords.

 

Delivery to any airport for the buyer to collect and sort out with customs, that can be avoided with an agent.

 

Did get a quote once, pistol to the US, from memory it was around £450 for buyer to pick up from the airport.

 

Not cheap, but sending a katana abroad with insurance (when they did insurance) via Parcelforce was never that cheap either, remember once paying around £260. 

 

Maybe one day the higher cost will just have to be accepted and factored in, time will tell.

 

On a plus, as Colin mentions. Do you ever really trust Royal Mail?, not really. 

 

Also, hoping some other courier will see the Royal Mail move as an opportunity to drag in some more business. UPS have been good over recent years.

 

Royal Mail never out of the news lately for the wrong reasons, is all this an attempt to improve their ***** image?

[Matsunoki]

I try not to think about what this could/will do to the value of any bladed collection….Japanese or otherwise. 

[Alex A]

I will just say this Colin.

 

I don't collect high end swords because i cant afford them.

 

If i did, and lets say i was posting something expensive or having one shipped here from abroad.

 

I wouldn't be using Royal Mail, EMS, UPS or whatever.

 

Would use a specialist shipper of the type mentioned above.

 

When you think about it, it is crazy shipping expensive antiques in cardboard boxes with everyday couriers (especially without insurance), even for less expensive swords.

 

My new philosophy, sell any bladed weapon that you don't cherish and wish to keep long term and avoid buying such items.  Some of us not wealthy enough to own risks.

 

However, for desirable swords of good quality , doubt the prices will drop.

[Brian]

Alex, try and put any spin on it, but the fact is that collecting any form of weapon in the UK is doomed. The govt there is going to push and push and push until there is no new blood, and then it will die. The measly attendance at the London Arms Fair made that very clear. New blood starts with cheap items. If those cannot be sourced easily and cheaply, they will focus on something else. Like collecting septum rings or tattoos. Arms collecting in the UK is done. It has one generation left.

[Alex A]

I think they will only push so far,  for the most part authentic antiques will be ok.

 

Decent swords have never come cheap here,  i did not get one until i was in my 30s.

 

Look at the Lanes Armoury as an example, no end to wealthy folks wanting a Samurai sword and never will be.

 

Preston arms fair always busy,. Seen cheap waks there for £250, usually something for the beginner.

 

My main concern is shipping swords abroad, always has been.

 

 

 

 

 

[Matsunoki]

I think the issue ripples a bit wider. If UK internal shipping becomes either a total no-go or becomes prohibitively expensive with an independent courier  you can envisage auction houses saying its just not worth the “hassle” or “the negative publicity “…..and simply stop selling all blades. 
Imagine the impact not just on Japanese things but the millions of other blades sitting in collections. 
That could make the arms fairs more popular but it could also go the other way if demand is strangled and they wither and die. 

 

[Alex A]

Auction houses should just buy a van and deliver it themselves

 

They seem make enough money

[Matsunoki]

True!

[The Blacksmith]

This is worrying. I will have to ask a few of my dealer contacts what they will do. Much of my collection has come from abroad, mainly UK and US. Luckily, I have never had a problem, either with anything going missing, or damaged. Only problem I have ever had was a bayonet that came from Ireland, and which took seven weeks to get here, and nobody knows swhy, or where it had been.

There are a couple of items that I am hoping to acquite from the Uk, so I will ask them about sending them to me, and report back.

 

I did buy a rare bayonet some ten years back, and the dealer wouldn't send it out of the counrty, as he informed me that the Royal Mail would destroy it! I had it sent to a friend of mine, and he tried to send it to me, only to be informed the same thing. I eventually had it sent to a dealer friend of mine, who very kindly sent it to me, via Royal Mail as per usual, no problem at all! I have bought many bayonets from him, and never had a problem. It seems that Royal Mail didn't know their own rules, as bayonets were not prohibited in any form!

[pcfarrar]

4 hours ago, Brian said:

Alex, try and put any spin on it, but the fact is that collecting any form of weapon in the UK is doomed. The govt there is going to push and push and push until there is no new blood, and then it will die. The measly attendance at the London Arms Fair made that very clear. New blood starts with cheap items. If those cannot be sourced easily and cheaply, they will focus on something else. Like collecting septum rings or tattoos. Arms collecting in the UK is done. It has one generation left.

 

Ian Bottomley predicted years ago that collecting was ultimately doomed in the UK. With a Labour "woke to the max" government likely coming later in the year it's only going to accelerate the demise.

 

 

[Alex A]

Just to be clearer now i have the time.

 

This has never been a young persons game, well, unless that young person is doing particularly well in life. There's a few on here that i bet are still in their 20s. 

 

Some dealers appear to be doing very well, stuff coming in and moving out on a regular basis, Garth Vincent for instance..

 

What is it you guys think will happen with regards further Government legislation?. could you be more specific?. Are you suggesting that one day all the collectors in the UK will have to take all their valuable antique arms they own down to the police station for destruction?

 

The shipping issue within the UK, i don't see as an issue. Anything of value and folks are willing to travel to see it "in hand", which is the sensible route anyways, Most items that i have sold within the UK, folks prefer to pay cash when they see it.

 

Wont lie, i do have concerns over certain stuff, but not about anything Antique and genuine. I mentioned i sold four knives at an arms show. These were ww2 knives. I sold them because i see them as a bit of grey area with regards shipping only, ownership was not a concern. There is only so much one is willing to own and eventually sell/ship under a worrying future regarding shipping.

 

Shipping swords has always been an hassle, for me the curse of collecting, especially shipping abroad.

 

Perhaps a permit might be a good idea for genuine collectors, rule out all the idiots that pick up swords for no good reasons. Said permit holders allowed to ship their items.  Perhaps that's the way to go, don't know.

 

If we are the last of the generation, then so be it. Glad i was one of those that lived to enjoy the hobby.  

 

From now on, its a case of cherry picking. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian]

1 hour ago, Alex A said:

JAre you suggesting that one day all the collectors in the UK will have to take all their valuable antique arms they own down to the police station for destruction?...

Canada did it with other arms....pretty sure the UK won't hesitate. They already did it with a number of other items.

[Alex A]

 

 

Obviously hoping someone has sense at Government and that's never going to be the case, time will tell.

[Davis]

Brian, I think you might be right.  I remember those early London Arms fairs.  Long queues formed up early before the opening, once in, the place would be buzzing, with much jostling around the dealers tables.  I went to one awhile ago and there were more dealers than punters.

 

I've collected for many years and have noticed how social attitudes have changed.  I grew up postwar in a badly bomb damaged area of the East End of London.  As a seven year old boy I took part of my collection to school.  A spear, picklehaube and a German pistol.  The helmet was put on display in the school library, the spear wouldn't fit in the glass cabinet and I had to take it home again.  The gun was more of a problem and my mother had to go to the school to pick it up.

 

As a teenager I would advertise in a weekly magazine called the "Exchange and Mart".  It was a different world then and very trusting.  Virtually all communication was by letter and people would send me things by post, usually wrapped in a single sheet of brown paper tied with string.  I made a return offer by post and if the offer was accepted send a postal order to them,  if not I would return the item using the same brown paper.

 

I bought my first Japanese sword through the Exchange and Mart,. from a police officer.  I went to his home, gave him a couple of quid and travelled home with it on the bus.  Other passengers weren't the least bit bothered or interested.  It was fun collecting back then, how times have changed.

[Matsunoki]

15 minutes ago, Davis said:

It was fun collecting back then, how times have changed.

Mick , wonderful comments  which I (and many in the UK) can relate to. At least we had those times. 

[Lewis B]

18 minutes ago, Davis said:

Brian, I think you might be right.  I remember those early London Arms fairs.  Long queues formed up early before the opening, once in, the place would be buzzing, with much jostling around the dealers tables.  I went to one awhile ago and there were more dealers than punters.

 

I've collected for many years and have noticed how social attitudes have changed.  I grew up postwar in a badly bomb damaged area of the East End of London.  As a seven year old boy I took part of my collection to school.  A spear, picklehaube and a German pistol.  The helmet was put on display in the school library, the spear wouldn't fit in the glass cabinet and I had to take it home again.  The gun was more of a problem and my mother had to go to the school to pick it up.

 

As a teenager I would advertise in a weekly magazine called the "Exchange and Mart".  It was a different world then and very trusting.  Virtually all communication was by letter and people would send me things by post, usually wrapped in a single sheet of brown paper tied with string.  I made a return offer by post and if the offer was accepted send a postal order to them,  if not I would return the item using the same brown paper.

 

I bought my first Japanese sword through the Exchange and Mart,. from a police officer.  I went to his home, gave him a couple of quid and travelled home with it on the bus.  Other passengers weren't the least bit bothered or interested.  It was fun collecting back then, how times have changed.

I remember Exchange and Mart and LOOT. Long before the advent of the internet these were the best mediums to buy and sell. Good memories hunting for mopeds and low cc motorbikes as a teenager. 

[The Blacksmith]

Those were good times. I can well remember buying Exchange & Mart every Thursday I think it was, and immediately going to the militaria section, which was avidly read and re read. As a teenager, I was known as 'spiky' to a couple of local shops as I was seemingly always carrying a pointy weapon of some sort. Nobody was bothered, or even gave a second flance, and I never had a problem buying items either from shops.

Those were good times indeed. I'm pleased to have been around then.

 

Perhaps the UK might introduce a permit for edged weapons, like they have in Denmark. We do not have it here, but in Denmark even for blunt weapons a permit is required.