pcfarrar Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 For anyone in the UK the Royal Mail are banning all bladed items from April 22nd 2024. This Includes sharp scissors "You must not send any item that has a blade, in particular, ‘Bladed Articles’ as defined by the Criminal Justice Act 1988 or ‘Bladed Products’ as defined by the Offensive Weapons Act 2019. Such items include, but are not limited to, any knife blade, any kitchen knife (regardless of size or design), bread knives, knives that can be used for hobbies and trades (regardless of whether they are marketed as knives, for instance, utility knives and snap-off cutters), gardening and farming tools that have a blade, any trade tool that could commonly be described as a knife, butcher’s knives (including meat cleavers), cutlery knives, scissors with sharp edges, sporting equipment with a blade, replica and antique knives (including those used for re-enactment purposes), handmade and bespoke knives, open razors (where the blade is exposed), any axe, any sword, survival knives, or machete" 2 1 5 Quote
nulldevice Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 That's incredibly unfortunate. Is this tied to the new pushes/bills for further knife bans? Quote
Matsunoki Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 Living in the UK just seems to be getting more and more depressing. Just like when they took handguns away from us law abiding licensed citizens……it won’t actually achieve anything. There are millions of knives already in circulation. This is just a politically correct gesture that does nothing to solve the real law and order issue. Imo. 3 1 Quote
Mikaveli Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 So, this comes off the back of the Offensive Weapons Bill 2019. I believe Royal Mail began a consultation at the same time. Primarily, it's because there's an age verification requirement. Knives etc. cannot (legally) be shipped to under 18s. There was talk of Royal Mail introducing a "safe" service to include that? Quote
pcfarrar Posted February 1 Author Report Posted February 1 The Labour Party want to ban swords completely so we’ve got that to look forward to soon too. 1 Quote
Paz Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 Think that will be more complex than they believe. Religious groups, enactment, antiques ect. Its more of a election ploy but i could be wrong. At the moment it's one Labour mp who's advocating I beleive. That's if they can win the election, conservatives but look like they will loose, but I don't think Strammer is that popular. But then they tried to do this in 2015 and 2008. I read the proposal on machete ban, and antiques were still exempt. So that some hope. 1 Quote
Mikaveli Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 19 minutes ago, pcfarrar said: The Labour Party want to ban swords completely so we’ve got that to look forward to soon too. Bans are never complete - always just a headline grab, but in the details there's loads of caveats. Just like the "handgun ban" - there's still loads of scenarios where you can lawfully acquire a handgun in the UK (revolvers incl. 44 magnums, semi-auto, percussion, flintlock etc.). Quote
Matsunoki Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 13 minutes ago, Mikaveli said: there's still loads of scenarios where you can lawfully acquire a handgun in the UK (revolvers incl. 44 magnums, semi-auto, percussion, flintlock etc.). Michael…..it’s not quite that easy is it? Am I right that all handguns (excluding obsolete calibres and some antique ignition systems [flint/percussion]) have to be long barrelled and with the butt extension rods (ie not really handguns)and that semi-autos are .22lr only plus you need to jump through hoops backwards and belong to a club and get medical evidence etc? Quote
Mikaveli Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 22 minutes ago, Matsunoki said: Michael…..it’s not quite that easy is it? Am I right that all handguns (excluding obsolete calibres and some antique ignition systems [flint/percussion]) have to be long barrelled and with the butt extension rods (ie not really handguns)and that semi-autos are .22lr only plus you need to jump through hoops backwards and belong to a club and get medical evidence etc? No, not just .22lr you can have a centre fire, semi auto handgun with a heritage (Section 7) licence, or for humane despatch, or personal protection (in NI). Also, muzzle loaded, centre fire hybrids - and well as the long barrel / extension rod "technicalities". Although, yes - anything that you intend to possess to shoot needs to be licenced, with all the background and medical checks that includes. Quote
Matsunoki Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 16 minutes ago, Mikaveli said: No, not just .22lr you can have a centre fire, semi auto handgun with a heritage (Section 7) licence, Section 7 is extremely complex and I don’t think you can’t hold ammo for heritage (pre 1919] handguns?…. or risk 5 years in the slammer if you do. I think it’s on a pistol by pistol basis ie is it really a rare handgun etc Anyway, I wish anyone trying good luck. I know a fully licensed firearms DEALER that has fallen foul of these complexities and is currently without his freedom. Quote
Mikaveli Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 29 minutes ago, Matsunoki said: Section 7 is extremely complex and I don’t think you can’t hold ammo for heritage (pre 1919] handguns?…. or risk 5 years in the slammer if you do. I think it’s on a pistol by pistol basis ie is it really a rare handgun etc Anyway, I wish anyone trying good luck. I know a fully licensed firearms DEALER that has fallen foul of these complexities and is currently without his freedom. There's two halves of Section 7, one for collection/ ownership only (for which you're unable to possess ammunition), the other half of the provision allows you to purchase ammo and shoot your handgun. Complex, and restrictive, yes. But a complete ban, no - and that was my point. Because of the headlines, many people believe it's not possible at all - where's in reality, thousands of people in the UK own handguns. For genuine antiques*, you can buy them without a licence. That's the category / treatment I'd expect our hobby to fall under. Quote
Matsunoki Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 8 minutes ago, Mikaveli said: the other half of the provision allows you to purchase ammo and shoot your handgun. Yes but only at certain approved locations eg Bisley I think? 11 minutes ago, Mikaveli said: where's in reality, thousands of people in the UK own handguns. Indeed, until a few years ago I was one of them shooting LBR .357, LBR.22LR etc 13 minutes ago, Mikaveli said: where's in reality, thousands of people in the UK own handguns. True but the overwhelming majority are legal antique percussion cap, flint, teat fire, pinfire, obsolete cals etc Of course the bad guys all have modern Glocks, H&Ks etc. Excuse me being pedantic but I think it’s important not to give the impression that handguns proliferate among the law abiding UK citizens or that it’s easy to acquire any firearm licence nowadays. 1 Quote
Mikaveli Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 9 minutes ago, Matsunoki said: Excuse me being pedantic but I think it’s important not to give the impression that handguns proliferate among the law abiding UK citizens or that it’s easy to acquire any firearm licence nowadays. You're forgiven - but also arguing a point I didn't make. I simply stated there are many scenarios where you could possess a handgun lawfully, which there are. Licence, rules etc. aside - I never said it was easy (although for antique, obsolete calibre handguns, it certainly is). We don't really need to go into the specifics, I was just illustrating that if there should be a "sword ban" it's extremely unlikely to be all encompassing. 1 Quote
Matsunoki Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 12 minutes ago, Mikaveli said: We don't really need to go into the specifics, I was just illustrating that if there should be a "sword ban" it's extremely unlikely to be all encompassing. Indeed if there is a ban (or rather when there is a ban) and we are very lucky there might be exemptions for owning “antiques” etc However it is highly likely that they will ban actually selling or trading them as per the recent ivory legislation/ban. This totally wipes out all financial value…..with no compensations. That’s a bit scary? Fingers crossed. Quote
Mikaveli Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 18 minutes ago, Matsunoki said: However it is highly likely that they will ban actually selling or trading them as per the recent ivory legislation/ban. This totally wipes out all financial value…..with no compensations. That’s a bit scary? Fingers crossed. I can't see that happening myself. The Ivory ban is intended to eliminate the demand at source (i.e. no one needs to kill a rhino or elephant). For antiques, by definition, there is no new production. The UK "Samurai Sword Ban" even exempted new swords, when traditionally made - which is very permissive all things considered (and unfortunately, somewhat abused). Quote
Paz Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 31 minutes ago, Mikaveli said: I can't see that happening myself. The Ivory ban is intended to eliminate the demand at source (i.e. no one needs to kill a rhino or elephant). For antiques, by definition, there is no new production. The UK "Samurai Sword Ban" even exempted new swords, when traditionally made - which is very permissive all things considered (and unfortunately, somewhat abused). Correct. Handforged element refers to all curved swords be they Japanese swords made in China. Samurai swords fall under the curved sword ban, exempt to martial artist, re enactment groups, and antiques, religious groups. In the consultation write up, I did read that they didn't want to negatively Impact the antiques market. Its online sales they seem to want to tackle. For example you can't buy a sword from nine circles without providing the documention of your martial arts insurance. However this labour MP did mention that their may be a license in place as she did mention that their are legitimate reasons for having them. So it could, as mentioned above become like firearm laws. For eg. Martial artist already have a certain system in place. Just 2 cents 1 Quote
Matsunoki Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 33 minutes ago, Mikaveli said: For antiques, by definition, there is no new production. It was the same for ivory….antiques are antiques ……but they banned all antique ivory with only very minor exemptions…. and ivory isn’t even a lethal weapon. Wonderful works of art from many centuries and many nations were rendered valueless. Collectors lost lifetimes of investments and fortunes. They could argue that an antique sword is just as lethal as a new one. Never underestimate the capacity for any government to disregard common sense, to disregard the impact on collectors, to disregard the impact on legitimate hobbies….all in pursuit of votes and thus preserving their own political necks. All I’m saying is anything could happen especially if we get a bunch of “do gooders” in charge. 1 1 Quote
Alex A Posted February 1 Report Posted February 1 Game over for me, Too risky hanging on to stuff that one day i cant ship Most will go. as from tomorrow. 1 1 1 Quote
Alex A Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 It wont matter whether they are "antique" ok or not as i expect more couriers and airlines to jump on the bandwagon So yes you can own them but no you cant post them, so as said in another recent thread the field of sale will narrow, should you want to sell. As in, someone willing to drive to your house kind of a sale What happens when the likes of Aoi art cant get their swords to be delivered here, they go via EMS and usually Parcelforce finish the job. Also as said in the other thread, folks that wish to ship swords abroad will be forced to use specialist shippers which are expensive. Shippers that get your sword to the designated airport. Its up to the buyer to get his arse to the airport and sort the pick-up out, no more sitting on the arse watching tracking and wating for the courier to arrive. At extra cost an agent will sort the extra hassles, if required. Pissed off but had an idea it was coming. Will try hang on to the antiques for now but feel the need to start selling my knife collection. Just to mention also. Your not supposed to post antique firearms with the post office, but folks do, without hassles. 1 Quote
Paz Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 Sorry to hear that @Alex A I guess everyones situation would be different. And yes it seems like arms fairs would be the best place to view and buy. However ups still deliver and possibly other couriers. The royal mail aren't in a good place now as a business, and I've read an article that they might well go extinct. It seems highly likely that independent couriers will step in like they have already. Regards 1 1 Quote
Alex A Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 Hearing that don't make me any more confident about buying more swords, sad to say. Ps, might come across as overreacting lol, but no, just being prudent. Don't like what i see via those that govern us. Can just imaging some narrow minded soft ass know it all down at HQ intent on banning pointy things. Quote
Samurai Art Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 I recently imported a katana from the USA using Fedex. Long story short, Fedex UK cleared the sword, but then decided they would not deliver it. It had to be returned to the USA and sent via UPS, which had no issues. The logistics chain is failing Nihonto buyers/sellers. Now, there will be issues with using EMS from Japan as it passed to Parcelforce, and as we know, Parcelforce, Post Office, and Royal Mail are on the same network. Also, Parcelforce uses UPS to clear imports so expect UPS to follow. As to Labour wanting to ban swords, this is our most serious threat. I have contacted dealers in both BADA and LAPADA as I am a member. I hope non-accredited dealers, auctioneers and collector associations such as the Token will stand firm on this and work together. David Thatcher 3 2 Quote
Paz Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 34 minutes ago, MIFUNE said: I recently imported a katana from the USA using Fedex. Long story short, Fedex UK cleared the sword, but then decided they would not deliver it. It had to be returned to the USA and sent via UPS, which had no issues. The logistics chain is failing Nihonto buyers/sellers. Now, there will be issues with using EMS from Japan as it passed to Parcelforce, and as we know, Parcelforce, Post Office, and Royal Mail are on the same network. Also, Parcelforce uses UPS to clear imports so expect UPS to follow. As to Labour wanting to ban swords, this is our most serious threat. I have contacted dealers in both BADA and LAPADA as I am a member. I hope non-accredited dealers, auctioneers and collector associations such as the Token will stand firm on this and work together. David Thatcher I'm trying to be more optimistic. But I don't know how easy labour will have doing this. They will upset Religious groups who use swords for ceremony and martial arts such as gatka. And I don't think they want to go down that route. Which means if I read correctly from a quote. There will be exemptions. But who or what we won't know. I know people are already writing to their MPs. Quote
Mikaveli Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 1 hour ago, MIFUNE said: The logistics chain is failing Nihonto buyers/sellers. Now, there will be issues with using EMS from Japan as it passed to Parcelforce, and as we know, Parcelforce, Post Office, and Royal Mail are on the same network. Also, Parcelforce uses UPS to clear imports so expect UPS to follow. No, that's not really correct. There's lots of restrictions and prohibitions that apply to normal postal mail / "the mail" - that does not apply to Parcelforce. Just read the restricted, but permitted list on Parcelforce's website and you'll get the idea. There's dozens of examples where Parcelforce can handle items that Royal Mail cannot. People shouldn't jump to conclusions - Parcelforce have no stated plans to stop delivery of bladed articles or antiques (as long as they remain legal to possess in the UK): 1 Quote
Matsunoki Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 2 hours ago, Mikaveli said: People shouldn't jump to conclusions - Parcelforce have no stated plans to stop delivery of bladed articles or antiques (as long as they remain legal to possess in the UK): Are you sure? These are screenshots taken today from Parcelforce’s list of prohibited items for retail customers. Seems to clearly state that “all swords” are prohibited for bothUK and International 1 Quote
Mikaveli Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 2 hours ago, Matsunoki said: Are you sure? These are screenshots taken today from Parcelforce’s list of prohibited items for retail customers. Seems to clearly state that “all swords” are prohibited for both UK and International Again, arguing a point I didn't make. I said "no plans to stop _delivery_". You're talking about retail customers ability to send - that hasn't changed for some time. To send, you have to be an account customer (all EMS fall into this category - and that was specifically what I was answering). Parcelforce happily deliver antique swords, and my last delivery was Tuesday. Fully transparently, documented and labelled: 1 Quote
Matsunoki Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 26 minutes ago, Mikaveli said: Again, arguing a point I didn't make. My apologies. You are really saying parcelforce will deliver blades that are being imported (provided they are legal in the UK)…..but you also said… 5 hours ago, Mikaveli said: There's lots of restrictions and prohibitions that apply to normal postal mail / "the mail" - that does not apply to Parcelforce. Just read the restricted, but permitted list on Parcelforce's website and you'll get the idea. There's dozens of examples where Parcelforce can handle items that Royal Mail cannot. ……..which is not quite saying the same thing. Anyway it’s crazy that they will happily (?) handle imported blades but not those posted in the UK. We have members on here that have had perfectly legal swords “confiscated” upon UK entry and I had a three month dispute with Parcelforce on a blade via EMS from Japan. Glad yours arrive safely…..it’s not always that way. Quote
Alex A Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 Its the same with antique guns Colin. Can easily import them with UPS but apparently exporting isn't quite so straight forward Quote
Matsunoki Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 20 minutes ago, Alex A said: Its the same with antique guns Colin. Yep, correct. Nuts isn’t it? I guess we just have to get used to having inadequate people run many of our essential services. 1 Quote
Alex A Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 Aye, I'm coming around a bit now to the notion this nonsense will get sorted...................hopefully Don't take bad collecting news well lol 1 2 Quote
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