Recommend

[ysake]

Hello, I am interested in buying one of these two so much and I wanted to know which one do you recommend?

[ChrisW]

What can you tell us about each of them? Pictures can only do so much, but I am more attracted to the second one.

[Bugyotsuji]

It's a personal feeling but if I had a choice I'd go for the second one. Horses for courses, though.

[lonely panet]

Typically a shirasaya with a built-in habaki is a good sign the blade wasnt worth the investment of a metal habaki. 

 

But saying that the photographs are to poor to offer a informative analysis 

[Rivkin]

21 minutes ago, lonely panet said:

Typically a shirasaya with a built-in habaki is a good sign the blade wasnt worth the investment of a metal habaki. 

 

 

Some people call it "Daimyo's habaki" - believing those were in Daimyo storage, too many blades not seeing the light of day and thus fitted with integrated wooden habaki by shirasaya specialists.

[Bugyotsuji]

Not too long ago I was told that a wooden habaki can be a good sign. Kirill's post makes sense.

[2devnul]

2 hours ago, Rivkin said:

 

Some people call it "Daimyo's habaki" - believing those were in Daimyo storage, too many blades not seeing the light of day and thus fitted with integrated wooden habaki by shirasaya specialists.

 

2 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Not too long ago I was told that a wooden habaki can be a good sign. Kirill's post makes sense.

 

Interesting. So below Koto blade could be worth something ...

 

 

[Shugyosha]

Hi Adam,

It's certainly worth something. Ubu koto Mino blade in good condition with two generations (from a google) signing 濃州関住兼近 - Noshu Seki ju Kanechika, one around Oei (1394 - 1428) and the other around Meio (1492 to 1501) both get a respactable 20 points from Hawleys. From this link and the following page on the Nihonto Club index:

https://nihontoclub....ture_value&sort=desc

 

 

@Rivkin and @Bugyotsuji - I'd not heard that about shirasaya with wooden habaki, it has cheered me up as I have a blade with this. Also as regards @ysake 's original post, conversely shirasaya with a horn insert around round the hole for the mekugi are also suggestive of a better blade due to the extra care required to make them. On a purely feel basis, I think I prefer the second blade based on its overall form and as it appears less tired to me, some loose grain above the shinogi and little kaeri on the boshi, being suggestive of a greater number of polishes in respect of the first blade.

 

Any pictures of the tangs or any appraisal documents with these blades?

[Bugyotsuji]

John, did you reject 兼辻 Kanetsuji?

[Shugyosha]

Hi Piers,

I'd like to say yes, but I think I just got it wrong.

 

Adam, here's the link to Kanetsuji: https://nihontoclub.com/smiths/KAN2730

[Scogg]

I’m familiar with these listings. I’ve purchased from the seller before. They have good prices and honest descriptions. 
 

I’ve also seen their images reused in fraudulent listings before. I’ll send you a message @ysake to confirm you’re at the right place. Looks like the second blade is no longer available, did you get it? 

*edit: confirmed legit seller 

Nakago pics from the sellers page: first four are blade #1, last three are blade #2 

Edited January 31, 2024 by GeorgeLuucas
*confirmed

[ysake]

Thank you all for taking your time and helping me with this decision.

[Jussi Ekholm]

The Kanetsuji (兼辻) blade is not connected to these two listings I presume? Funny enough I accidentally bumped into this smith lineage last night when browsing some items. There were several generations working late Muromachi period.

 

For me both the N.1 and N.2 could look interesting. However when looking at images of N.1 it seems it could be very worn down.

[ysake]

Another question, does anyone know? What can I do to send it and have them give me a certificate and tell me the origin?

[Scogg]

If it were worth it to be papered, it likely would be already. That's not to say you cannot try! Here's a link with some info about NBTHK shinsa submissions.
(sharing a link I took from Stephen from a different thread)

https://www.bushidoj...insa-submission.html

I'd recommend being patient and taking your time though... As beginners, there's a lot to take in before we start sending swords all over the world. You will benefit greatly from study, before making any big decisions and spending too much $$$. The sword can wait while you study a bit. - just my two cents

Best of luck,
Cheers,
-Sam

Edited January 31, 2024 by GeorgeLuucas

[ysake]

thanks for the advice

[lonely panet]

20 hours ago, Rivkin said:

 

Some people call it "Daimyo's habaki" - believing those were in Daimyo storage, too many blades not seeing the light of day and thus fitted with integrated wooden habaki by shirasaya specialists.

Iv never heard this. And im sceptical. 

 

Iv seen afew rough blades to believe it

[2devnul]

18 hours ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

The Kanetsuji (兼辻) blade is not connected to these two listings I presume? Funny enough I accidentally bumped into this smith lineage last night when browsing some items. There were several generations working late Muromachi period.

 

 

Hi, I don't want to hijack this topic with the Kanetsuji, but I see there is interest in this blade. It is in possession of my friend and AFAIK he is willing to sell it (I'm considering buying myself). Let me open a new topic on forum with more pictures and details. I'm looking forward to everyone's comments there. 

 

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/47653-koto-wakizashi-noshu-seki-ju-kanetsuji-please-comment/

 

[ysake]

good morning colleagues, my choice was the second and I wanted to ask in vace the shape and the hamon, do you have any suggestions to start my research and find which school or blacksmith it derives from?

[ysake]

[Franco]

4 hours ago, ysake said:

do you have any suggestions to start my research and find which school or blacksmith it derives from?

 

Kantei is the vehicle and methodology that needs to be used/followed in order to possibly determine the answers to your questions. 

https://markussesko....9/kantei-1-sugata-2/

https://markussesko....i-2-jigane-jihada-2/

https://markussesko....tei-3-hamon-boshi-1/

https://markussesko....tei-3-hamon-boshi-3/

 

It is essential that when evaluating a sword using kantei to be constantly mindful of which features are a function of manufacturing, and which features are a function of polish. Otherwise, as Professor Arnold Frenzel often reminded those attending his study group sessions, any misstep in kantei particularly when it came determining time period could leave one hopelessly lost. 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

 

[ysake]

Thanks