Newbie looking at Samurai Museum

[Hutch]

Hello all,

 

My first post! I am located in Toronto Canada and newly interested in Nihonto. After reading through some posts on this forum of interested, I decided to join hoping to take advantage of the collective knowledge which was certainly impressive. 

 

I was looking at the following and would certainly appreciate any thoughts people are willing to share. 

 

https://www.samuraim...u-kicho-certificate/

 

I have read through the earlier post that was asking for advice related to Samurai Museum shop which was very helpful.

 

Few things on my mind that I'd be specifically interested in views:

• Older Tokubetsu Kicho
• Significant Kizu 
• Views on Ujisada and the history surrounding him

 

Motivations are more as a fledgling collector as opposed to investment. That said, hoping not to be ripped off. 

 

Thanks and best regards,

Kevin

[Jim P]

Hi Kevin, I don’t post much these days but I thought this was funny!! they sell samurai jeans

So a bit of advice if a sword shop sell swords for 16k and sells samurai jeans too it should  give you a big ?

https://www.samuraim...ory/ryukyu-ai-denim/

It has been said repeatedly on this board be suspicious of old papers coming out of Japan

Also, he gives a good rendition of the Ujisada story but he does not state its by him

Only this blade is attributed to Ujisada 

[SteveM]

Hello Kevin, 

Regarding Tokubetsu Kicho papers: take a look at the threads below. It is one of the most talked about topics here on NMB. These threads do a pretty expert job of summarizing the various issues surrounding these papers. 

 

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/16555-authenticity-of-nbthk-papers-green-paper/

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/46795-green-papers-mean-no-papers/

 

 

 

 

[Guest Simon R]

If it's too good to be true, then it is.

If a sword has Tokubetsu Kicho papers and would get the modern equivalent when put through a new shinsa, then any Japanese dealer would definitely have done so. On the other hand, if it's obviously not worth submitting or it failed to get the higher modern paper, then it's easy to offload it to eager, foreign novices (no insult intended  - that was 99% of us here when we started).

[Hutch]

Thank you all very much for the responses, very helpful. I suppose with the limited research I have done so far, I was a bit worried this would be the tone of the response. Candidly, I think the esthetic of the fittings had also drawn me in. 

 

Wonderful community you have here. 

 

All the best,

Kevin

 

 

[ckaiserca]

Hi Kevin,

 

Toronto has a great sword group (JCCC Token Kai)  that meets at the Japanese Canadian Cultural Centre. There are lots of very knowledgeable people who come to the meetings. The next meeting is on Saturday February 3. The meeting will start at 1:00 pm, but people arrive for some pre-meeting socializing and show and tell at around noon. Visitors are always welcome. If you want to join as a formal member, the cost is $20.00 per year for the club, plus $30.00 to become a member of the JCCC. The knowledge that is available at a single meeting is more than worth the cost of membership.

[Mikaveli]

7 hours ago, Hutch said:

Thank you all very much for the responses, very helpful. I suppose with the limited research I have done so far, I was a bit worried this would be the tone of the response. Candidly, I think the esthetic of the fittings had also drawn me in. 

 

Wonderful community you have here. 

 

All the best,

Kevin

 

 

 

The Samurai Museum Shop, from my experience, doesn't misdescribe anything - but like most businesses, they're not going to find reasons for you not to buy it.

 

They acknowledge the older paper, state that the blade has flaws - and provide good pictures of the condition.

 

Now, their prices are usually at what I'd describe as "retail premium" - but it's a fairly safe place for beginners. The modern / gifts / novelty stock is just volume sales to make the business viable (accompanying the museum etc.).

 

For you (and this specific sword), I'd recommend against it. The fittings you like, won't be from the date of the blade - unless stated explicitly, assume they're modern. I'd also recommend you get a blade with modern, NBTHK Hozon or preferably, Tokubetsu Hozon papers.

 

$16k is a a lot of money, and you'll be able to get something very, very nice in that price range.

[Hutch]

@ckaiserca Thank you very much for flagging the Toronto sword club. I am very much interested and my wife is keen too! Unfortunately I'll be away on a business trip on Feb 3rd. If not too much trouble, I would love to know when the next meet up is once that information is available?

 

@MikaveliThat seems like a very balanced view, much appreciated. I will follow yours and others advice and pass on the Tachi in question. I am still keen on a first sword purchase and will keep my eyes out. Certainly a bit more research wouldn't hurt too!

[ckaiserca]

5 hours ago, Hutch said:

I would love to know when the next meet up is once that information is available?

Kevin,

 

The meeting schedule for the remainder of 2024 is as follows:

 

Saturday, February 03 2024 12:00 PM-4:00 PM

Saturday, April 06 2024 12:00 PM-4:00 PM  

Saturday, June 08 2024 12:00 PM-400 PM

Saturday, September 07 2024 12:00 PM-4:00 PM

Saturday, November 09 2024 12:00 PM-4:00 PM

 

JCCC Token Kai

 

I can’t attend the February 3 meeting either due to a commitment at work, but will be at the other meetings. I look forward to meeting you at a future meeting. 

[Rivkin]

Its a late Muromachi mumei katana. Those tend to have weak specific attributions and often resubmission yields another name.

it has a bit rougher jigane and a bit more bland hamon than better Ujisada works, so while the attribution can stick it can be a bit optimistic.

So by itself its not a very expensive blade.

The koshirae however is of a more expensive type and is a very large portion of the package. 

Still it would be an interesting offer at a lesser price.

[Jacques D.]

I'm not in the habit of advising on a purchase, but as you're new to this hobby I'll make an exception. Much too expensive for a tired Shinto mumei sword. Let it aside.

[Katsujinken]

I haven’t even clicked the link and I can tell based on this thread that Jacques is correct. 
 

That price is hilarious.