Beautifully Filed Tsuba With Manji (NOT Nazi Swastika)

[Guest Simon R]

Signed Hoan Sadanaga, I have no knowledge of the craftsman - nor do I care if it's gimei.

I simply fell in love with the way the beautifully patinated iron had been filed vertically before carving in the Buddhist Manji.

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Intending to confine myself to a quick like click, now I find my fingers tapping the keys. I like that a lot. Recently I bought a Hoan tsuba, unsigned but papered by NBTHK. Nice, but I wonder what makes it specifically Hoan in their eyes? Are you a Hoan expert, Simon?

[Guest Simon R]

  On 1/11/2024 at 12:33 PM, Bugyotsuji said:

Intending to confine myself to a quick like click, now I find my fingers tapping the keys. I like that a lot. Recently I bought a Hoan tsuba, unsigned but papered by NBTHK. Nice, but I wonder what makes it specifically Hoan in their eyes? Are you a Hoan expert, Simon?

Expand  

By no means, Piers!

I am simply going on the signature.

 

I would love to see your own tsuba!

[Bugyotsuji]

This is your thread and your really interesting tsuba.

 

Mentally I associate it with the Kamon of the Hachisuka clan of Awaji and Tokushima (particularly as I have some of their artefacts). You can see examples of their manji, also reversed manji used by cousins of the family, in the Tokushima Castle Museum. One large painting there shows the sails of their trading ships with prominent manji centrally upon them. Your tsuba works in reverse, too.

I'll take a shot of my Hoan (very different though) and post it here when the thread quietens down a little! 

[Guest Simon R]

  On 1/11/2024 at 1:00 PM, Bugyotsuji said:

This is your thread and your really interesting tsuba.

 

Mentally I associate it with the Kamon of the Hachisuka clan of Awaji and Tokushima (particularly as I have some of their artefacts). You can see examples of their manji, also reversed manji used by cousins of the family, in the Tokushima Castle Museum. One large painting there shows the sails of their trading ships with prominent manji centrally upon them. Your tsuba works in reverse, too.

I'll take a shot of my Hoan (very different though) and post it here when the thread quietens down a little! 

Expand  

Very interesting!

 

Partially because of all the bad press this symbol has (unfairly) received because of the Nazis, I also take note whenever I see it in the form of a kamon here in Japan.

The only other item I own with it displayed is an antique wooden box I picked up around 15 years ago in a tiny, old bric-a-brac shop.

[Curran]

  On 1/11/2024 at 1:46 PM, Simon R said:

Very interesting!

 

Partially because of all the bad press this symbol has (unfairly) received because of the Nazis, I also take note whenever I see it in the form of a kamon here in Japan.

The only other item I own with it displayed is an antique wooden box I picked up around 15 years ago in a tiny, old bric-a-brac shop.

Expand  

 

Korean chest.

Nice. Please be sure to care for the wood.

 

Is the lock original? Some people collect those the same way we collect tsuba.

 

Nice tsuba too. I like the file lines across the manji.

As to the bad press on this ancient symbol used both in Asia and by American Indians, yes the Nazi party "Culturally Appropriated" it. Take it up with the Nazis, be they Illinois Nazis or just oldschool European Facists.

 

[Guest Simon R]

  On 1/11/2024 at 2:22 PM, Curran said:

 

Korean chest.

Nice. Please be sure to care for the wood.

 

Is the lock original? Some people collect those the same way we collect tsuba.

 

Nice tsuba too. I like the file lines across the manji.

As to the bad press on this ancient symbol used both in Asia and by American Indians, yes the Nazi party "Culturally Appropriated" it. Take it up with the Nazis, be they Illinois Nazis or just oldschool European Facists.

 

Expand  

Many thanks! (I do take great care of the wood.👍)

Yes, the lock is original and comes with the key. I never realised it was Korean!

[Matsunoki]

  On 1/11/2024 at 12:11 PM, Simon R said:

beautifully patinated iron had been filed vertically

Expand  

That’s a very nice tsuba imo. The design to me suggests either torrential rain or looking into a dense cedar forest…..yes….overactive imagination🙂

[Guest Simon R]

  On 1/11/2024 at 2:51 PM, Matsunoki said:

That’s a very nice tsuba imo. The design to me suggests either torrential rain or looking into a dense cedar forest…..yes….overactive imagination🙂

Expand  

Both wonderful interpretations. The design is pretty enigmatic, even in hand.

[Curran]

  On 1/11/2024 at 2:35 PM, Simon R said:

Many thanks! (I do take great care of the wood.👍)

Yes, the lock is original and comes with the key. I never realised it was Korean!

Expand  

 

Yes. Likely a wedding chest. 

Lined with old korean silk, possibly repurposed from the sleeves of a woman's traditional wedding dress.

Specifically:  korean woman of the korean aristocractic (Yangban) class during the Joseon period.

 

 

[Steves87]

Great looking box there! I'm a bit of a carved camphor chest collector myself and those locks often come with the boxes without the key. If I move the box on, I usually keep the key-less lock, sometimes I get a box with a key stuck in it.. and no lock!

[Bugyotsuji]

Sadly this one is mumei but NBTHK gave it Hoan, Tokuhon. Why, I wonder? What is the defining characteristic of Hoan?

(Wishing mine were signed btw. Jealous in Slough)

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Simon R]

  On 1/12/2024 at 3:50 AM, Bugyotsuji said:

Sadly this one is mumei but NBTHK gave it Hoan, Tokuhon. Why, I wonder? What is the defining characteristic of Hoan?

(Wishing mine were signed btw. Jealous in Slough)

 

 

 

 

 

Expand  

That's a beauty, Piers!

 

According to both 

https://tsuba.info/schools/

and

https://www.tosoguya.com/tsuba.html

Hoan tsuba have an "acid etched" surface (which I really can't see in my example).

 

Is that 'Jealous in Slough' as in the Slough of John Betjeman's poem? 

[Bugyotsuji]

(Wishing mine were signed btw. Jealous in Slough)

From the office, David Brent.

https://www.google.c...vid:LQOJoGx3QyQ,st:0

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Simon R]

  On 1/12/2024 at 8:01 AM, Bugyotsuji said:

(Wishing mine were signed btw. Jealous in Slough)

From the office, David Brent.

https://www.google.c...vid:LQOJoGx3QyQ,st:0

 

 

 

 

 

Expand  

I was born next to Slough and worked on that same trading estate for about a year. I could never bear to watch 'The Office' because it was just too true to life! (Especially as I've had 'David Brents' as bosses on a number of occasions throughout my career.)

[Guest Simon R]

By the way, any tsuba experts who know anything about Hoan Sadanaga 法安定長 please feel to chime in at any point!

[Stephen]

Lovely Tsuba Simon,  I like thinking rain but bamboo override my thoughts. 

[SteveM]

Similar striations in this tsuba that was attributed to Myōchin. I wonder if it was a stylistic trend, or if it has some particular meaning.

 

 

https://www.seiyudo.com/tu-090116.htm

[Spartancrest]

To me it reminds me of hand split cedar or pine.

  

[Davis]

It too reminded me of the grain in wood.  Early use of the symbol ( Gustav Jacoby)

[Grevedk]

Evening all,

 

I think Dale @Spartancrest my have a point 😜👍 Apologies for a slightly twisted picture, but this Tsuba has a similar yasurime with a plausible interpretation “wood panel”.

 

/Soren

 

 

[Spartancrest]

Hey have I seen that book before? 

[Grevedk]

  On 1/14/2024 at 5:46 AM, Spartancrest said:

Hey have I seen that book before? 

Expand  

Probably a few thousand times 😜

 

Congratulations to Australia are in order by the way. It’s not every day that a beautiful Tasmanian lady ( Mary) becomes Queen of Denmark. But today the Kingdom of Denmark gets both a new King and a new Queen by proclamation 🇩🇰🇩🇰🇩🇰🎈

 

 

 I know - Sorry Simon 

 

/Soren

[Bugyotsuji]

If you think about the shinodare ‘hanging’ spill elements decorating some kabuto, then Norton’s use of the expression Shino Yasurimé above does make sense.

 

篠誰shinodaré

篠shino 

篠鑢(目) shino yasuri(mé)

 

And in the description of this tsuba below, they also use the expression “shino yasuri”

https://ginza.choshu.../munetsugu_tsuba.htm

 

 

 

[ROKUJURO]

I am very much in doubt as to the use of the term 'filed' or 'YASURI' for these TSUBA decorations. In my opinion, the grooves are not filed but embossed, but I hope Ford will reply to my mail and give us his educated verdict.

[Matsunoki]

  On 1/14/2024 at 12:35 PM, ROKUJURO said:

not filed but embossed,

Expand  

Jean, embossing is a process that uses pressure/stamping to create an impression into something…using preformed dies, rollers or similar. That would be pretty difficult to achieve in a thick iron plate methinks. How do you envisage that being done?

[ROKUJURO]

Colin,

I was missing any signs of filing or removed metal on Simon's above pictured TSUBA, and in addition to that I thought of the technical means in a traditional Japanese TSUBA forge. I think I could replicate this surface decoration without any machines in my forge on a sheet metal with TSUBA dimensions. Of course I may be wrong (as so often), so let's wait what Ford might have to say.

[Matsunoki]

Some of those parallel “grooves” are so thin I could almost envisage them being done with a very thin saw blade using some sort of guide. Of course I have no idea if the artist that made Simons beautiful tsuba had access to such a tool but judging by some of the ito sukashi work that you see  I guess that maybe he did. Don’t know….but that tsuba is a lovely work of art imo.

[zanilu]

After seeing on Ford videos how he handles a chisel I think that the lines are made by chiseling. 

 

Just my two cents.

 

Luca

[DoTanuki yokai]

I would also say it is engraved with chisels.