New member beginning the journey.

[Avidmark]

Hi everyone. I have a few questions about acquiring my first Nihonto but I’ll introduce my self first. I’ve trained a few different martial arts over the last 25 yrs primarily being Kempo and Kung fu, and 6yrs+ of off and on training Iaido. I live in Canada and am a professional firefighter for the last 15yrs. My primary interests include watches, cars, and of course martial arts. Most of my life I’ve admired the beauty and craftsmanship of Japanese swords. I find it fascinating that something so effective at killing and taking life can be a beautiful work of art. 
My collection consist of a Japanese made Iaito, and a Hanwei carbon steel katana. 
last year I purchased the book The Art of the Japanese sword by Yoshindo Yoshihara. 
 

So after a long winded introduction my first question is about acquiring my first nihonto is about Gendaito. 
I had the understanding that swords made around WW2 were of low quality compared to previous generations. Is this true?

My second question, is it appropriate to mount a gendaito with a more traditional Koshirae as opposed to the WW2 appearance (sorry I don’t know the name). I ask this because I see most blades in my price range ($3-5k) being shirasaya and no koshirae. 

 

Appreciate your input, thank you. 
 

[Xander Chia]

Hi Mark, welcome to the board! Before I attempt to answer your questions, I would like to preface that these are my own opinions (that of a beginner) and you should wait for others to chime in.

 

Answer 1: 

You will find differing opinions on this matter. I will let the more experienced members of the board answer this one.

 

Answer 2:

The WW2 mounts/koshirae can be referred to as gunto koshirae and there are several variants. It is fine to mount gunto in traditional koshirae. For long term storage it would be best to leave them in shirasaya. The latter provides better protection from the elements.

 

Where do you usually look for nihonto? You should be able to find gunto in their original mountings within the USD3k-5k range with no issues. This forum has quite a number of links to  commercial sites. Under the drop down menu, go to Nihonto Info > Links.

[Scott JM]

I know others will probably echo this, but I really think it's best to start with books.  I fortunately was too young and poor to afford to waste any real money on actual swords, and had to buy and thoroughly read books about swords before I could actually buy one.  I think this saved me alot of money and disappointment. 

--Scott M.

[David Flynn]

Welcome Mark,  Your question on Gendaito,  is one I've had many discussions on.   My take on this is, the Gendai period  unfortunately  contains WW2.  During this time, many swords were made as expediently as possible, without sacrificing effectiveness.  Now saying that,  there were many special order Gendaito made during the war.  Of course the top Smiths generally made higher quality swords, though even these smiths did some "Rush Jobs".    The Gendai Period leading up to Sino Japanese war (1937-19450, also produced generally higher grade swords. 

 

One of the main tenets of Nihonto collecting is, each sword should be judged on it's own merit.  This is also one of the main stumbling blocks, for new collectors.   The only answer to this is, Study!   Books are essential, however, the biggest learning experience is to actually handle swords and then, preferably, having someone who is able to explain what you're looking at.  

 

Good luck with your journey, hopefully you can find someone who'll help guide you.

[Avidmark]

Any recommendations? I saw Facts and fundamentals of Japanese swords mentioned but it’s out of print and very expensive. Not sure if it’s worth the out of print pricing or not. 

[John C]

If it is Nihonto you are interested in, a good and reasonable jumping off point would be The Connoisseur's Book of Japanese Swords (currently 47.75 USD on Amazon).

https://www.amazon.c...Swords/dp/1568365810

 

This book will give you a good overview of the different schools, hamon, hada, etc.

 

John C.

[Avidmark]

16 minutes ago, John C said:

If it is Nihonto you are interested in, a good and reasonable jumping off point would be The Connoisseur's Book of Japanese Swords (currently 47.75 USD on Amazon).

https://www.amazon.c...Swords/dp/1568365810

 

This book will give you a good overview of the different schools, hamon, hada, etc.

 

John C.

Thanks for the recommendation. Was just looking at that one on Amazon. 

[vajo]

6 hours ago, Avidmark said:

. 
I had the understanding that swords made around WW2 were of low quality compared to previous generations. Is this true?

My second question, is it appropriate to mount a gendaito with a more traditional Koshirae as opposed to the WW2 appearance (sorry I don’t know the name). I ask this because I see most blades in my price range ($3-5k) being shirasaya and no koshirae. 

 

Appreciate your input, thank you. 
 

 

Gendaito are traditional forged true Japanese swords. To answer your question about quality: No!

Age is never a indicator of quality.

 

Second question: If a gendaito comes in Gunto mount it is worthy. Changing the mounts to a civillian look is like you change a 80 years old oldtimer car into a modern sand buggy. Do it not!

 

Take a look on my site about gendaito. You can use google to translate the website.

 

http://www.schmucker-info.net/

 

[Stephen]

One note is, its Chris Bowen if you search for him.

 

If you find a gendaito in not so important minty mounts, it's fine to make Koshirae to your spc. 

 

If properly made you don't need a shirasaya. 

 

My Hiromasa Dai mid 1940s

with shinto sho.  

[Paz]

Hi Mark

 

If you want to approach this hobby in the best way possible. Then it is books. However 90 percent of beginners want to own their first nihonto to get into the swing of things as I did. 

 

But imagine going to buy your first nihonto with a wealth of knowledge and knowing what you like. The result will be something you absolutely appreciate. 

 

 

 

Regards 

[Stephen]

All in all books are important  

but not  as much as sword in hand. 

 

More than a few members from up north...I'd as for some one in your area to have a meet n great. Maybe more than one would like to have a get-together. 

[Avidmark]

9 hours ago, vajo said:

 

Gendaito are traditional forged true Japanese swords. To answer your question about quality: No!

Age is never a indicator of quality.

 

Second question: If a gendaito comes in Gunto mount it is worthy. Changing the mounts to a civillian look is like you change a 80 years old oldtimer car into a modern sand buggy. Do it not!

 

Take a look on my site about gendaito. You can use google to translate the website.

 

http://www.schmucker-info.net/

 

Informative write up. Thank you. 

[Avidmark]

9 hours ago, vajo said:

 

Gendaito are traditional forged true Japanese swords. To answer your question about quality: No!

Age is never a indicator of quality.

 

Second question: If a gendaito comes in Gunto mount it is worthy. Changing the mounts to a civillian look is like you change a 80 years old oldtimer car into a modern sand buggy. Do it not!

 

Take a look on my site about gendaito. You can use google to translate the website.

 

http://www.schmucker-info.net/

 

And if a Gendaito for sale comes in only shirasaya mount, is it appropriate to mount the Gendaito blade in katana koshirea? The reason is I’m not a fan of the Gunto aesthetic. 

[Stephen]

17 minutes ago, Avidmark said:

The reason is I’m not a fan of the Gunto aesthetic. 

Why you do as you like, that's his opinion it's not written in stone.

[Avidmark]

15 hours ago, Scott JM said:

I know others will probably echo this, but I really think it's best to start with books.  I fortunately was too young and poor to afford to waste any real money on actual swords, and had to buy and thoroughly read books about swords before I could actually buy one.  I think this saved me alot of money and disappointment. 

--Scott M.

Along with discovering preferred books for research I’ve found forums like this to be of great importance. I’ve been a watch enthusiast/collector for many years and plan to use that experience in my new journey here. I have learned waters can be very murky with anything “vintage”. And said waters can be filled with sharks. 

[SteveM]

People mount gendaito in katana koshirae all the time. There is no taboo against having a koshirae made for a gendaito. But there is an economic headwind  against making a bespoke koshirae. It is usually a labor of love, and whatever cost (including time and energy) you invest into having a koshirae made, will probably not be met with a corresponding rise in value of your ensemble. 

 

 

[GeorgeLuucas]

I know you already said you don’t like the gunto aesthetic. Which is totally understandable! 
 

BUT Just to throw this out there: There’s a lot of different gunto koshirae. Some are more handsome than others in my opinion; and they vary in quality to a degree.

 

Sorry if this is presumptuous and something you’re already well aware of. The only reason I bring it up, is because IF there is a koshirae that you like, it would be more affordable to find a Gendaito with exsisting koshirae than making a new set. With some ww2 history to boot! 

Welcome to the forum!

best of luck, 

-Sam

(images taken from google)

 

[Avidmark]

1 hour ago, SteveM said:

People mount gendaito in katana koshirae all the time. There is no taboo against having a koshirae made for a gendaito. But there is an economic headwind  against making a bespoke koshirae. It is usually a labor of love, and whatever cost (including time and energy) you invest into having a koshirae made, will probably not be met with a corresponding rise in value of your ensemble. 

 

 

Good to know, thank you.  This will not be an investment to gain money with. I’ll leave that to my actual investments. This is just for myself to display and admire. 

[Stephen]

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