Guest Simon R Posted January 8, 2024 Report Posted January 8, 2024 Any ideas regarding the motif of this set would be appreciated. It seems to be salmon with gold balls in their mouths plus other, unknown symbols. Cheers. Quote
Matsunoki Posted January 8, 2024 Report Posted January 8, 2024 They remind me a Shachihoko…..dragon fish??. Maybe chasing flaming pearls? 5 Quote
Dan tsuba Posted January 8, 2024 Report Posted January 8, 2024 Hello Simon, I think the motif is Shiachi dragon fish? I have a tsuba with a similar motif (shown below). With respect, Dan 2 Quote
ROKUJURO Posted January 8, 2024 Report Posted January 8, 2024 It is clearly salmon for me (not smoked yet) plus stars and FUNDO, by KUNIYOSHI with KAO. It has a HIRADO/HIZEN feeling for me. 1 Quote
Stephen Posted January 8, 2024 Report Posted January 8, 2024 Does it have wings? No, so ther ya go. 1 1 Quote
Matsunoki Posted January 8, 2024 Report Posted January 8, 2024 Never seen salmon with a beard and bushy eyebrows 🙂🙂 2 Quote
rematron Posted January 8, 2024 Report Posted January 8, 2024 There are plenty of examples of 'Dragon Fish' posted in the above referenced thread that do not have wings, so it seems like a valid question to me. Is this (below and borrowed from the referenced thread) a salmon? It has a similar nose as the OP. I believe the central jewel depicted in the OP fuchi kashira might also be a hint that it's a shachi because of its inclusion. Not sure why there would be a jewel associated with salmon but I'm a beginner and might not have been exposed to that yet. 5 Quote
1kinko Posted January 8, 2024 Report Posted January 8, 2024 These are salmon returning to freshwater when the tips on the jaws grow inwards to form hooked jaws. This would be the most commonly encountered form that anyone but fishermen would be familiar with. Not usually the best eating but still pretty good with sufficient soy and sake. At least 1 of the dragon fish shown above have jaws that flare outwards. Quote
Guest Simon R Posted January 9, 2024 Report Posted January 9, 2024 11 hours ago, ROKUJURO said: It is clearly salmon for me (not smoked yet) plus stars and FUNDO, by KUNIYOSHI with KAO. It has a HIRADO/HIZEN feeling for me. Can you please tell me what FUNDO is? I'm assuming it's the gold double circle with copper flames(?) on both pieces but don't know the symbolism. Thank you. Addendum: Sorry, strike the above; I know what FUNDO 分銅 is now - a Japanese weight. 👍 However, I'm still completely in the dark as to the large gold and copper symbol. Quote
Stephen Posted January 9, 2024 Report Posted January 9, 2024 6 hours ago, Matsunoki said: Never seen salmon with a beard and bushy eyebrows 🙂🙂 Sockeye 1 Quote
Stephen Posted January 9, 2024 Report Posted January 9, 2024 5 hours ago, rematron said: There are plenty of examples of 'Dragon Fish' posted in the above referenced thread that do not have wings, so it seems like a valid question to me. Is this (below and borrowed from the referenced thread) a salmon? It has a similar nose as the OP. I believe the central jewel depicted in the OP fuchi kashira might also be a hint that it's a shachi because of its inclusion. Not sure why there would be a jewel associated with salmon but I'm a beginner and might not have been exposed to that yet. That has wings Quote
Matsunoki Posted January 9, 2024 Report Posted January 9, 2024 I reckon here the artist has created a hybrid creature which is nothing unusual. I can’t see a pure dragonfish nor a pure salmon. IMO the large gilt/copper sphere with flames?? is a water jewel. So, compromise??🙂🙂 Best. Colin. 1 Quote
Spartancrest Posted January 9, 2024 Report Posted January 9, 2024 Salmon have a downward curving top jaw - most dragon fish either have a dragon head or upward curling top jaw - but there is a lot of 'Artistic license' going on with a lot of images - especially when you consider the Shachi creature is mythical, - at least I can't find a photograph of one 2 Quote
ROKUJURO Posted January 9, 2024 Report Posted January 9, 2024 11 hours ago, Simon R said: .....However, I'm still completely in the dark as to the large gold and copper symbol. Yes, it is not obvious, but it might be a TAMA, as Colin suggested. 2 Quote
FlorianB Posted January 10, 2024 Report Posted January 10, 2024 Yes, I know it seems to be a fishy creature, but somehow it reminded me also to a wild boar. Like these: (Seen on https://nihontofranc...inko-menuki/?lang=en (sold item)) Obviously a cross between different animals surrounded by lucky charms. Haven't seen this before! Best, Florian Quote
Spartancrest Posted January 11, 2024 Report Posted January 11, 2024 Salmon and rat themed F/K - https://www.jauce.com/auction/s1120830360 or https://buyee.jp/ite.../auction/s1120830360 3 Quote
Kurikata Posted January 11, 2024 Report Posted January 11, 2024 completed with a same topic kozuka..... 2 1 Quote
Guest Simon R Posted January 11, 2024 Report Posted January 11, 2024 On 1/9/2024 at 6:09 PM, Matsunoki said: I reckon here the artist has created a hybrid creature which is nothing unusual. I can’t see a pure dragonfish nor a pure salmon. IMO the large gilt/copper sphere with flames?? is a water jewel. So, compromise??🙂🙂 Best. Colin. I think you've nailed it with the 'tide jewels', Colin. This wood block is of the dragon-god of the sea presenting the jewels to his human son-in-law - and it looks like a pretty good match. 👍 Quote
Matsunoki Posted January 11, 2024 Report Posted January 11, 2024 Well, if indeed they are jewels then it would suggest that the beasts are intended to suggest Schachihoko albeit with artistic licence. I’ve never encountered any link between salmon and tama. Also the salmon illustrated above are dried/dedicated ie a traditional food source …. Hence the rats! IMO😊 2 Quote
Spartancrest Posted January 11, 2024 Report Posted January 11, 2024 4 hours ago, Kurikata said: completed with a same topic kozuka..... Well we better include the menuki as well - https://www.aoijapan...-design-is-engraved/ minus the rats! 1 Quote
Guest Simon R Posted January 11, 2024 Report Posted January 11, 2024 1 hour ago, Matsunoki said: Well, if indeed they are jewels then it would suggest that the beasts are intended to suggest Schachihoko albeit with artistic licence. I’ve never encountered any link between salmon and tama. Also the salmon illustrated above are dried/dedicated ie a traditional food source …. Hence the rats! IMO😊 Japanese artists have a unique way of representing nature sometimes! For example, these rather crude menuki apparently show trios of sharks. I just couldn't see it myself until I found the woodblock print entitled 'sharks'. Quote
Matsunoki Posted January 11, 2024 Report Posted January 11, 2024 2 hours ago, Simon R said: For example, these rather crude menuki apparently show trios of sharks. Just to be awkward….Methinks they are not sharks…..the “form/appearance” is all wrong for sharks on both the print and the menuki. I would suggest Ayu…..sweetfish. A favourite Japanese delicacy …. 1 Quote
Toryu2020 Posted January 11, 2024 Report Posted January 11, 2024 I would go with Shachihoko - all the other symbols are "treasures", symbols of good fortune. A dragon fish is half of each but a symbol of becoming something great. Were they presented with a withered look then you could argue salmon. mho. -tch 2 Quote
Guest Simon R Posted January 11, 2024 Report Posted January 11, 2024 21 minutes ago, Matsunoki said: Just to be awkward….Methinks they are not sharks…..the “form/appearance” is all wrong for sharks on both the print and the menuki. I would suggest Ayu…..sweetfish. A favourite Japanese delicacy …. They are so badly executed you are probably right! Quote
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