Wakizashi Japanese antique sword Bishu Osafune Sukesada Muromachi era koshirae

[Swords]

Any help about this sword would be appreciated 

my concern is the smith overall condition saya handle and hardware 

Price is 3800 

[Bugyotsuji]

So, your concern is all of those things?

 

Can we get a close-up of the nakago and Mei?

[David Flynn]

From Japan without papers?   Instant Red Flag.

[Swords]

Flynn you told me a Bishu Osafune Sukesada sword was worth a lot more? Let me check about papers and the the mei I also believe there  

were many signatures Wouldn’t it not be a gimme?

 

Steve

[Swords]

Here’s additional info and mei I’m checking on papers but probably not 

[Swords]

I don’t like the kissakie and can’t see the boshi clearly 

[Jussi Ekholm]

I think it is ok sword but I don't agree with the price. I would make a offer for lot less and seeing how far apart I would be with the dealer, I wouldn't even make it as it would perhaps offend him/her.

 

I think it fits for a Sukesada blade from early 1500's. Size would fit it well. Perhaps possibly some water damage/corrosion somewhere along the history would explain the dents on nakago. At least I've heard similar explanations for dents.

 

To me it seems koshirae is just cobbled together and made to fit this sword.

 

[Swords]

Good information guys Thanks

I don’t want to make  mistake with another sword so any information I can get is much appreciated 

I think best to have papers 

may get it for a lesser price ? 
 

 

Steve 

[Guest Simon R]

1 hour ago, Swords said:

I don’t like the kissakie and can’t see the boshi clearly 

So why are you considering spending 3,800 on it then?

[Stephen]

I'd search on our FS thread or noted sellers....ebay is full of pit falls.

[Swords]

Thanks Stephen You’re probably right

I made the mistake on another Sukesada Don’t want another one

 

 

[Guest Simon R]

19 minutes ago, Swords said:

Thanks Stephen You’re probably right

I made the mistake on another Sukesada Don’t want another one

 

 

"Sukesada" is like a huge organisation rather than just a few individuals.

If you want something by the board of directors rather than the tea lady, go and read some books.

[Swords]

It never ceases to amaze me when everyone thinks they no more than any one else So your the year lady? 

[Swords]

Excuse me I meant know more!

[Guest Simon R]

11 minutes ago, Swords said:

It never ceases to amaze me when everyone thinks they no more than any one else So your the year lady? 

I'm not the one whining they've been "DUPED" when they haven't bothered doing any research and they make a mistake.

 

Oh, Happy Christmas, by the way.

[Swords]

Yes I did make a mistake I’m sure you never have!  I meant to say saki lady or tea whatever you prefer 

[Guest Simon R]

15 minutes ago, Swords said:

Yes I did make a mistake I’m sure you never have!  I meant to say saki lady or tea whatever you prefer 

I've made lots of mistakes, certainly.

But I've never made the same one twice.

 

What's the old saying?

"Fool me once, shame on you."

"Fool me twice, shame on me."

 

Wise words - especially if you've been "DUPED".

[Matsunoki]

Buying a sword off eBay is fraught with danger unless you know what you are looking at AND know that you can trust the seller. Buying from a sword shop located in Tokyo pretty much guarantees the price will be very high and you are unlikely to find any bargains…..quite the opposite. This is simple common sense.

Ive had a look at this sword on eBay…..the seller has provided an accurate description explaining the sword comes from a “factory” type set up . He has provided damned good images (the boshi is clearly visisble, the kissaki looks intact…..why can’t you see it?)

In this instance I see no attempt at deception,  I just see a hugely excessive price COMPARED TO WHAT YOU COULD BUY AT THAT PRICE FROM SOMEONE YOU CAN TRUST AND WHO WOULD EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT YOU ARE BUYING  PREFERABLY WITH THE SWORD IN YOUR HANDS. 

There is no substitute for a basic understanding of how the market works, at least some grasp of the subject, and where the bear traps are set.

Just my opinions.

 

[Stephen]

Shalom my members 

I really don't think rubbing someone's nose it serves any purpose. 

Especially on Christmas. 

Very sad indeed. 

 

We all started out crawling before we walked.  Unless you forgot. 

[Swords]

Great explanation Stephen I don’t know why someone can use criticism towards another. Unless it makes that person feel superior 
 

To all Have a great Christmas and New Year 

 

 

Steve
 

 

[Ed]

Several things:

1.) Mistakes are made by everyone at one time or another. The big difference is learning from those mistakes. Which is why books are recommended. Books enable you to do your own research and make an educated decision. Therefore eliminating the need to rely on others for help and reducing the probability of mistakes. 

2.) The photo you provided is the date. Eisho something c. 1504.

3.) There were highly rated Sukesada. Hawleys rates the early Bizen Sukesada (Einin 1293-1299) at 125 pts. Later examples dated as your example is rated a mere 15pts.

4.) Don't buy into the hypothesis that a sword imported from Japan without papers is automatically gimei. Most of theJapanese dealers are buying at auction held in Japan only for licensed dealers. Most of the swords are unpapered when purchased. If a sword is considered potentially valuable and worth shinsa submission, it will likely be submitted, but not always due to costs of restoration and time constraints. I have imported many unpapered swords from Japan over the years which later went on to be papered by their new owners. Knowledge is key, research and study increase knowledge.

[PNSSHOGUN]

What is the issue with the Boshi? 

[Swords]

It was difficult to see clearly with the pitting 

[Swords]

My main concern is the mei correct 

[Swords]

I think I’m done posting any more swords on this forum

 

thanks for your help 

 

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

You showed us the date side of the nakago. That looks about right, possibly even too good. Do you have a photo of the Sukesada part of the main Mei?

[David Flynn]

Just a suggestion.  Why not save your money buying off ebay, and attend some sword shows in the US?   You'd be able to handle many swords and ask questions.  There is nothing like holding a sword, before you buy it.

[Ooitame]

Sword shows are great for learning! There does seem to be corrosion, possibly stabilized,  but none the less it is there. This brings into question how deep does it go... Seems like a good togishi could fix that. Then, there is the question of which Sukesada. Koshirae looks new. To me I would pass. Save for something in better condition even papered. Either way good luck, and Merry Christmas!

[Guest Simon R]

2 hours ago, Swords said:

I think I’m done posting any more swords on this forum

 

thanks for your help 

 

 

 

Please!!! 🙏🙏🙏

[Mark S.]

I was just going to say that rushing to buy blades is never a good idea.  Not a criticism, just saying that if you are going to buy on line (especially EBAY), much study is needed to know what you want and what you are looking at.  Another HUGE learning curve is having a feel for the going rate of blades compared to similar blades from different dealers.  To simply post a blade and ask everyone “what they think” will get you 100 opinions.  Sooner or later you have to decide if a blade is worth it to you despite what everyone thinks as you are the one who has to own it.  Not everyone likes the same things.   Learn enough to know what you want, what you like, and how much you’re willing to spend.  Hope you keep learning here.