Tanto mei

[JonP]

Does anyone know this mei? I understand the maker is Kanemitsu around 500 yrs ago. Here is the description that came with it. As the mei is faded i can’t find a match online so far.

”Known as a "Yori Doshi" this style of Tanto was constructed with an unusually THICK & ROBUST blade designed to be able to PIERCE Samurai armour
This genuine ANTIQUE hand forged "layered & folded" blade produced Circa 1450 - 1550 Blade signed by maker Kanemitsu
There are only 13 sword makers recorded that utilised this signature, several can be eliminated as working too early, & several for being long after manufacture
Shirasaya inscription reads "Noshu Ju Kanemitsu" (Kanemitsu living in Mino province)
The blade shows unmistakeable Mino manufacture traits in the "Taka no Ha Yasuremei" (Swordsmith's signature file-mark pattern) While incredibly feint, after 500 yrs, they can be still positively identified
The blade shows VERY STRONG tempering clearly throughout most of its length & exhibits a very RARE trait "Utsuri" (temperline shadow reflection) Found ONLY when a sword is tempered by heating & quenching at the OPTIMUM temperature
Only the most experienced and SKILLED sword makers were able to produce Utsuri in their blades. The ability to do so "at will" was LOST around the 17th Century, & only re-gained in 1972 by Yoshindo Yoshihara (elevated to the status of "living national treasure" soon afterwards)
There are "Hadaware" (minor forging flaws) in the form of poorly adhered welds after MANY sharpening & polishings throughout it's working life. 95% of ALL Koto swords display Hadaware they are little detraction to knowledgable collectors of KOTO era swords.
Blade length 8.5" along back edge & MASSIVE 7.75 mm thick @ Habakimoto (IE as THICK as any Katana !) Tang is "Ubu" (As made 500 years ago)”

[ROKUJURO]

I would not consider this blade to be a YOROI DOSHI. These are usually thicker, sometimes more than 10 mm.

The description of the seller is a bit "flowery" and optimistic, I think. Condition is so-so, needs a polish.

[JonP]

9 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

I would not consider this blade to be a YOROI DOSHI. These are usually thicker, sometimes more than 10 mm.

The description of the seller is a bit "flowery" and optimistic, I think. Condition is so-so, needs a polish.

This description looks exactly like mine size and shape wise. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoroi-dōshi

[JonP]

Looks pretty stabby to me. 😁

[ROKUJURO]

3 hours ago, JonP said:

Looks pretty stabby to me. 😁.....

That is what TANTO are made for. 

[Tensho]

I personally would consider this a "thick tanto" I've been seeing a trend lately of sellers labeling any tanto over 7mm thick as a Yoroi Doshi. 

 

The borderline for me would be at least a 9mm Moto kasane

[JonP]

3 hours ago, Tensho said:

I personally would consider this a "thick tanto" I've been seeing a trend lately of sellers labeling any tanto over 7mm thick as a Yoroi Doshi. 

 

The borderline for me would be at least a 9mm Moto kasane

Thanks for the reply. I bought this 15 years ago from a reputable dealer and have no doubt of its authenticity or its purpose. My question was if anyone could read the “mei”.

[PNSSHOGUN]

https://nihontoclub.com/view/smiths/meisearch?order=field_smith_province_value&sort=asc&type=All&mei_op=contains&mei=kanemitsu

[Tensho]

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/658-kanemitsu-tanto/

[Ed]

Not sure why you are posting again, your question was answered in 2007.

 

[JonP]

16 hours ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

https://nihontoclub.com/view/smiths/meisearch?order=field_smith_province_value&sort=asc&type=All&mei_op=contains&mei=kanemitsu

Excellent, thanks.

[JonP]

15 hours ago, Tensho said:

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/658-kanemitsu-tanto/

Thanks for the reminder, totally forgot about that.

 

15 hours ago, Tensho said:

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/658-kanemitsu-tanto/

 

[JonP]

7 hours ago, Ed said:

Not sure why you are posting again, your question was answered in 2007.

 

1: totally forgot, hard to remember yesterday let alone 13 years.

2: if I had I would have still asked as I assume with time opinions and knowledge change.

3: the layout of the forum, i find, is not easy to navigate and keep up to date on.  

[JonP]

16 hours ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

https://nihontoclub.com/view/smiths/meisearch?order=field_smith_province_value&sort=asc&type=All&mei_op=contains&mei=kanemitsu

I still can’t see the 2 characters on my tanto anywhere that seem to match the characters for Kanemitsu. It is very faint with age but the 1st character is pretty distinctive. My hope was someone on the forum was able to translate the 2 characters. Without the translation I can’t even start to theorise on the true smith.  🤗

[Jussi Ekholm]

Here circled

 

 

 

I cannot understand why the picture just uploads as black screen. I just drew a circle on my phone to it.

 

The third picture on your opening post has easy to see Kanemitsu.

 

 

[JonP]

29 minutes ago, JonP said:

I still can’t see the 2 characters on my tanto anywhere that seem to match the characters for Kanemitsu. It is very faint with age but the 1st character is pretty distinctive. My hope was someone on the forum was able to translate the 2 characters. Without the translation I can’t even start to theorise on the true smith.  🤗

After drawing the characters as simply as I see them, {I might be missing bits} I can see the bottom character is easily recognisable on the list of Kanemitsu mei. I’d like to know what this character translates as eg is this the character for Kanemitsu ? 🤷

[JonP]

23 minutes ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

Here circled

 

I cannot understand why the picture just uploads as black screen. I just drew a circle on my phone to it.

 

The third picture on your opening post has easy to see Kanemitsu.

 

 

Thanks Jussi. I see 2 characters. Do you understand the meaning of each character, if so can you tell me please?

Merry Xmas

32 minutes ago, JonP said:

I still can’t see the 2 characters on my tanto anywhere that seem to match the characters for Kanemitsu. It is very faint with age but the 1st character is pretty distinctive. My hope was someone on the forum was able to translate the 2 characters. Without the translation I can’t even start to theorise on the true smith.  🤗

After drawing the characters as simply as I see them, {I might be missing bits} I can see the bottom character is easily recognisable on the list of Kanemitsu mei. I’d like to know what this character translates as eg is this the character for Kanemitsu ? 🤷

[Jussi Ekholm]

Hello Jon!

 

 

I think many of us have spent so many years looking at signatures that they kinda flow naturally. Sometimes the characters are not exactly as their official character form. Here borrowed screenshot from Markus Seskos Nihontō Compedium that shows few variations of Kane character.

 

I am limited to my phone during Christmas time so posting images is bit difficult.

[SteveM]

兼　"Kane" means to do something concurrently, to serve two purposes. 

光   "Mitsu" means light. 

 

In this case, the two together are just a name. The meanings don't take on a special significance in this case. They are mostly chosen 1) because the smiths forebears used the same kanji (兼) in their names, so using it preserves a tradition, and 2) 光 has a positive connotation (light, bright). 

 

Kane can take on a huge number of forms, and the forms can be abbreviated to reduced even further in their calligraphic forms. You don't need to memorize all the forms, but it helps to know some general rules of Japanese calligraphy so you can recognize when certain patterns have been abbreviated. 

 

https://glyphwiki.org/wiki/u517c

https://glyphwiki.org/wiki/u5149

 

 

[Ed]

55 minutes ago, JonP said:

After drawing the characters as simply as I see them, {I might be missing bits} I can see the bottom character is easily recognisable on the list of Kanemitsu mei. I’d like to know what this character translates as eg is this the character for Kanemitsu ? 🤷

 

As pointed out, not every character will look identical. Keep in mind there were many smiths who signed Kanemitsu. There will be subtle differences between them much as the handwriting of 20 men today. Some smiths deliberately signed with a bit of artistic leeway to identify their particular works.  In summary, not every character will be identical. Identifying them often comes from years of reading them. 

 

Here are a couple of oshigata photos which may help.

[JonP]

1 hour ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

Hello Jon!

 

 

I think many of us have spent so many years looking at signatures that they kinda flow naturally. Sometimes the characters are not exactly as their official character form. Here borrowed screenshot from Markus Seskos Nihontō Compedium that shows few variations of Kane character.

 

I am limited to my phone during Christmas time so posting images is bit difficult.

Thank you, very helpful information. 🤗

[JonP]

33 minutes ago, SteveM said:

兼　"Kane" means to do something concurrently, to serve two purposes. 

光   "Mitsu" means light. 

 

In this case, the two together are just a name. The meanings don't take on a special significance in this case. They are mostly chosen 1) because the smiths forebears used the same kanji (兼) in their names, so using it preserves a tradition, and 2) 光 has a positive connotation (light, bright). 

 

Kane can take on a huge number of forms, and the forms can be abbreviated to reduced even further in their calligraphic forms. You don't need to memorize all the forms, but it helps to know some general rules of Japanese calligraphy so you can recognize when certain patterns have been abbreviated. 

 

https://glyphwiki.org/wiki/u517c

https://glyphwiki.org/wiki/u5149

 

 

Excellent explanation thank you.

[JonP]

Thanks guys, some very clear informative answers. I now understand what the characters mean and understand more about the variations about them. I wonder which Kanemitsu made this. It would certainly be a bad day for anyone meeting the sharp end of this blade. Merry xmas all.

[Bugyotsuji]

One more helpful hint, the way this 兼 Kane is written in short form often resembles 魚 fish! Even the Japanese recognize this.

 

(NB Not 金 Kane by the way, that's the same sound but a totally different line.)