Ebay Tanto

[SPM]

Hello again to this forum this my second post and similar to my first I was wondering if I may once again ask for the opinion of this E bay Tanto and what would be a realistic price for such a Tanto.

I have learnt a great deal from this forum and appreciate the knowledge and guidance shared by the members. My journey on Japanese sword knowledge is still in it's infancy but has come a long way since its birth.

It is a tanto that has appeal to me but have nagging reservations but from what I can see the blade looks to be of quality. My interest is in century old swords.

Any information appreciated.

https://www.ebay.com...e:g:whwAAOSw0URg9rMl

 

Regards

Steve

[SPM]

No takers I know the Sue Mihara era swords are not considered highly desirable and the blade is a Mumei so probably less so. The Suguha hamon style appeals to me and the Hada appears to be Ko-Itame the polish looks okay and the Koshirae albeit not in great condition appeals as does the Tsuba. I know its Ebay and this is not a high quality Tanto but it has appeal to me. I have looked at Aoi Art and other sites for Tantos and comparisons but as a novice find it hard to distinguish if this blade is worthy of paying the money asked even with a NBTHK Hozon paper . As the old saying goes a fool and his money are easily parted and I do not wish to be a fool which seems easily for one to become when purchasing Japanese swords in the early stages of collecting.

[ROKUJURO]

Steve,

I can't see much in the pictures, so the blade and its KOSHIRAE do not attract me personally, but if you like it....I would always want to see items like these in hand before buying, especially when such an amount of money is at play.

I think the price is considerably on the up-side, so maybe you can negociate around $ 3.000.--?

[SPM]

Thank you for the reply this is a video link which shows a better view of the blade,  century old blades fascinate me along with the Japanese culture of the time.

I knew the price was high after comparison with other Tantos and appreciate your input. Even on reputable sword sites I find it hard to understand price differences when comparing photos some look very similar to my poorly trained eye but prices can be very different. Living in Western Australia in the country it is impossible to view antique Japanese swords and the internet cannot replicate holding and appreciating the beauty of a 300 year old sword. Purchasing a $20000 sword online makes me feel very nervous at this stage so I will take small steps, I just don't want to feel like a fool when someone knowledgeable eventually scrutinizes my purchases.

 

Regards

Steve

[John C]

2 hours ago, SPM said:

the blade is a Mumei so probably less so

Just a general note. Some schools of thought actually prefer mumei blades that have shinsa attribution. No debate as to whether or not a mei is genuine. 

 

John C.

[SPM]

Thanks for the reply John and a question as the tang has no markings when attributed during Shinsa to the Sue Mihara era school is it possible this may not be accurate?

[ROKUJURO]

Steve,

for a novice a TANTO (there are no tantos; Japanese nouns don't have a plural form) may look similar to another one, but may be separated by many 10.000 $. As a beginner, you have to learn to see what is in a respective blade, and that takes a lot of time (in fact a life-time). We would call that 'quality', and you may find it in recent blades (only 150 years old) or in older ones, but there are lots of 500 year old blades with low quality and low value! 

[John C]

2 hours ago, SPM said:

is it possible this may not be accurate?

Not likely. Sometimes an exact smith may not be identifiable, however the particular style and school is. Additionally, the shinsa team is made up of experts. This is what they do (after years of study). I would feel comfortable with their assessment being accurate (see discussions on "green papers" for additional information on older paperwork).

John C. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi Steve, there are some collectors in Perth from memory. @george trotter may be able to help put you in contact to view swords in hand.

[Rivkin]

Tired and simple Muromachi piece with part modern koshirae.

Extremely expensive.

[Franco D]

4 hours ago, SPM said:

as the tang has no markings when attributed during Shinsa to the Sue Mihara era school is it possible this may not be accurate?

 

 One of the challenges for collectors that seek to advance their knowledge and understanding is to fully analyze the judgment/opinion.

In other words, prove the origami to be correct or incorrect. At the very least reach an understanding of how and why the judges reached their decision/conclusion.  The study/purchase of nihonto is an open book test. 

One word of note; a sword's polish is the one variable that may throw off a correct judgement.

"It's never easy."

 

https://www.nihontoc.../Mihara_Nihonto.html

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

 

[Jord505]

Hey Steve, i'm a younger collector from Sydney. Funnily enough i collect swords from the bingo province, and have been watching this tanto for a while. it looks text book sue mihara, but is very overpriced. Also i find the koshirae jarring. I'd love to connect with other Australian collectors and have a chat!

[SPM]

Thanks for all the information everyone and links it is truly appreciated.

Rivkin "Tired and simple Muromachi piece with part modern koshirae"  I take it that means from your perspective this is a Tanto that should be avoided.  Would you mind elaborating further so I can try and understand your appraisal, I was aware it was overpriced but it didn't look like it was poor quality workmanship to me but maybe I am blinded by my fascination with ancient Japanese culture.

Hi Jord nice to meet a fellow Aussie online I'm not sure why I keep going back to it but the Tanto appeals to me for some reason.

 

[Lee Bray]

I have a papered Sue-Mihara wakizashi and it is, frankly put, very boring.
Hada is bland and the hamon is lifeless. Absolutely no activity in it whatsoever. Far, far removed from the Ko-Mihara pieces one sees.

You could do much better for that money.

[Rivkin]

1 hour ago, SPM said:

Thanks for all the information everyone and links it is truly appreciated.

Rivkin "Tired and simple Muromachi piece with part modern koshirae"  I take it that means from your perspective this is a Tanto that should be avoided.  Would you mind elaborating further so I can try and understand your appraisal, I was aware it was overpriced but it didn't look like it was poor quality workmanship to me but maybe I am blinded by my fascination with ancient Japanese culture.

Hi Jord nice to meet a fellow Aussie online I'm not sure why I keep going back to it but the Tanto appeals to me for some reason.

 

Its hard for me to comment since I don't see any strong positives here. With late Mihara you want very pretty jigane, and there are many examples of such. Here its bleak, non-repeatative, disappearing in certain areas. Its still ok tanto, nothing horribly wrong with it, but its basically 700$ without koshirae and 1000$ in some old beatup mounts. That's what a collector would consider paying for it.

Koshirae here is basically the cheapest you can assemble from around the shop parts and the only thing that is not awful is tsuba.

 

I think one of the problems you are looking for a package with koshirae and those tend to be put together in Japan for beginners and often not really strong collectibles. 

[Jussi Ekholm]

Are you looking specifically Mihara items or what type of criteria do you have?

 

It is bit unfortunate but I think Sue-Mihara as mumei attribution is bit undesirable, as it is kind of low end bucket group. I don't think attributions in the "low end" matter that much and in my eyes they are going towards the potential option. When you have something like Sue-Bizen, Uda, Sue-Mihara, Sue-Seki etc. It would in my eyes be common lower level item. In my opinion there is nothing wrong in collecting such items, and they offer an affordable variety. However as was said above you need to be quite careful with the prices. Of course in the end many antique items are worth what someone is willing to pay for them.

 

Here you can see a Ko-Mihara tantō from Nanbokuchō period, it comes with quite nice koshirae and Hozon paper for 500,000 yen (c.5200 AUD), so it is cheaper than the eBay Sue-Mihara. Unfortunately this blade isn't top notch either but I think it is fairly attractive package.

 

To me the best Mihara work I have seen is the Masaie Ōdachi at Yasukuni Jinja, spectacular and huge sword. There are also many good signed and also attributed Mihara works, some even late Muromachi work.

[Alex A]

Why on earth would you spend that kind of money on this mumei tanto?

 

Look through the well known Japanese sites

 

Ps, if you cant distinguish between quality, dont buy anything until you can

 

You will regret it.

 

[Alex A]

If you like Suguha and Ko-itame

 

Check out Hizen Tadayoshi

 

High ranking smith, seen SIGNED TOKUBETSU HOZEN waks for the similar price to that tanto

 

And, yes, the fact it is not signed will eventually bug you.

[Franco D]

One reason to think about adding Yamanaka's Newsletters revised to one's library is not only for Yamanaka's kantei guidance and historical background descriptions, but the fact that these newsletters describe both positive and negative aspects of nihonto and how to identify them. What to look for and what to avoid..

 

Regards,

[SPM]

Wow okay lots to consider now and thank you everyone for your input, I appreciate that the knowledge required to fully appreciate the skill involved and history of Japanese sword making eludes me as yet and possibly always will.

Yes I am influenced by the Koshirae when I look it completes my desire in a sword but is not a deal breaker.

Being Mihara school era is not a requirement for me I am open to different eras but antiques and history and the associated romance is where my interest lies.

Finally if only I was fluent in Japanese and had very deep pockets it would make all of this a lot easier, sadly my tired middle aged mind is no longer sharp enough for the challenge.

I will continue my search for a Tanto and reflect on the wealth of experience gifted to me in these replies obviously I need to spend a lot more time on this bleeping computer searching and learning, RIP my eyesight.

Thank you everyone for your feedback it has been truly appreciated and hopefully any input in the future from me will come with a touch of wisdom fingers crossed.

All the best to you all.

 

Regards

Steve