New hopefully koto katana.. kinda scratching my head though

[vfl]

Bit of an impulse buy in my hunt for a budget koto katana.  Very much an amateur in the nihonto world, but it has been super interesting to try and learn.  I have been trying to pin down this smith, era, school, etc, but just seem to end up with more questions than answers.  Any thoughts or opinions would be very welcome.  The sword itself is still in the process of getting shipped, so sorry in advance if you need more pictures as I will be unable to provide them for a while yet.. luckily AoiArt does a very nice job with theirs.

 

Purchased from AoiArt:

https://sword-auction.com/en/product/19465/as23252-刀-盛綱鑑定小札付き/

 

Digging into the smith a bit online, this is all I was able to come up with:

https://nihontoclub....a=All&school_nid=All

but none of those smiths match the time frame AoiArt is mentioning.

 

I have been reading through my only nihonto reference (The Connoisseur's book of Japanese Swords) and enjoying the 'research' aspect, even if it isn't getting me anywhere with this katana.  Learning the terminology and history has been a blast.  But there has been no mention of this smith that I have found, and I am still puzzling through how to derive an era via the shape of the blade.  The farthest I've gotten so far is that it has a katana mei so it should be Muromachi or later.. and that obviously it was shortened.  Was it common to shorten a katana like this if it was originally made as a katana?  I've only read reference to the shortening of earlier tachi in this manner. 

 

For the paperwork, was this a previous system of appraisal?  I didn't really put much weight on the value the paperwork imparted, since I am only loosely familiar with the NBHTK system.. mostly just saw that as a neat addition to what I hope is a koto blade.

 

Anyway, will take anyone's input gladly on the smith, age, paperwork, etc.. thanks and happy holidays!

[Alex A]

Looks late Muromachi to me.

 

 

[drbvac]

Do you have a problem with AOI's description and information ? 

Usually they are pretty accurate and reliable in terms of what they report on their items and I know I couldn't question what is said on any level 

[SteveM]

I think he's just trying to square the circle of the Moritsuna smith listed in the Nihonto Club site (1300s), and Aoi Art's claim that the sword is late Muromachi (mid-to-late 1500s).

 

Ben, there are a few more Moritsuna smiths than are listed on the Nihonto Club site. The kantei paper says this is Moritsuna from Chikuzen province. Markus Sesko's Index of Swordsmiths lists a couple of Moritsuna smiths from Chikuzen at the end of Muromachi, so this smith is (presumably) one of those. There are no oshigata or photos for these other Moritsuna smiths, so there isn't a lot of reference material to dig into. Must be a reasonably minor/obscure group. They aren't listed in Fujishiro at all. 

 

 

[Jussi Ekholm]

Steve is giving some amazing advice as usual

 

I do think Kongōbyōe school might be a reasonable direction to look towards to. Unfortunately it is minor school with not too much information. I do think the "contrasting layers" on the blade would fit well within the craftmanship of the school. Also good to note that smiths of the school often signed Mori X

However I think the signature itself might not be of the common style of the school. Kongōbyōe signatures are often quite large in size. Unfortunately I don't have Kongōbyōe Moritsuna swords on record.

 

Here are some reference swords

Moritaka: https://toyuukai.jp/products/金剛兵衛盛高作-特別保存刀剣鑑定書-katana-kongou-hyoue-moritaka-saku-品番-ｋａ

Moritaka: https://buyee.jp/ite.../auction/h1107353776

Moritoshi: https://www.token-ne.../juyo-moritoshi.html

Morikiyo: https://ginza.choshu...rikiyo_kongobyoe.htm

Morishige: https://hyozaemon.jp...ct/minamotomorisige/

 

[Rivkin]

Its common for Muromachi to produce unlisted smiths so theoretically we start from features rather than name. Since its signed it does resolve a lot of uncertainty: were it mumei there would be a chance for it to be Nanbokucho, but as is its almost ubu, its Tensho period sugata. Steel matches.

It has a bit of Yamato provincial look with masame, shirakke utsuri and suguha. Its not kai mihara.

From this prospective its possible to consider Fuyuhiro, Naminohira, Kaifu, Kongo. With strong parallel masame next to suguha I would second the argument its not Fuyuhiro but something Kyushu related.

Kongo is a very strong contender. I think what the attribution you have is very solid.

The issue is that if you submit it to NBTHK chances are they'll just repeat the signature with no extra info. Or they might confirm.

 

[Alex A]

13 hours ago, drbvac said:

Do you have a problem with AOI's description and information ? 

Usually they are pretty accurate and reliable in terms of what they report on their items and I know I couldn't question what is said on any level 

 

 

No disrespect Brian but not good advice.

 

Ben is right to question all the information presented. Even if it has NBTHK paper, question that too. Though as Ben probably knows, better to do all this BEFORE a purchase in future.

 

Question everything.

 

 

[drbvac]

10 hours ago, Alex A said:

 

 

No disrespect Brian but not good advice.

 

Ben is right to question all the information presented. Even if it has NBTHK paper, question that too. Though as Ben probably knows, better to do all this BEFORE a purchase in future.

 

Question everything.

 

 

I agree for certain question anything you are not happy with but I assumed his main goal was to have a koto blade and was wondering if that was accurate. For smiths with very little information available, the blade itself probably indicates the period as best as you will be able to and Aoi is certainly pretty good with that. He has his koto blade and the rest is for more accuracy on the smith etc. I was just saying the descriptions from AOI are usually pretty accurate to the extent that they go.

[Alex A]

Aye,  is a good place to shop.

 

I have wondered why this blade don't have NBTHK

 

Possibly, the mei may have presented a quandary.

[JonP]

It’s beautiful, who cares about the nit picky details. Of course you will enjoy any details and information garnered but don’t let them get in the way of the joy and duty of ownership. The 3 peg holes alone show it has a hell of an history. Enjoy your new piece of history and craftsmanship. 
One query, why doesn’t the price show up, I’m very interested to know how much such a thing is from Japan and what they charge for the delivery etc. Green with envy 🤗

[Ooitame]

Agree attribution can be a hold up for papers, had one ZaiMei that was rejected for Hozon with an explanation of further study required. Rare, but it does happen.

 

Seems it has had work done to it, suriage and a polish or two, the Kissaki being so close to the ha lean in this direction. So maybe an older blade.

 

Either way, a good dealer, and nice sword, congratulations.

[Jacques D.]

As far as I can see, hada and hamon are typical of the Kongobei school. I should add that all smiths in this school have the Mori kanji (盛) in their name.

[vfl]

Appreciate all of the feedback!  Sorry been on travel..

 

Yeah, apologies if the original post came off as me just second guessing AoiArt's info.  I was just trying to dig into who the smith was and wasn't finding any information that matched up with what they'd listed.  Makes sense now that yall have provided some more references and much appreciated knowledge.  I have ordered from AoiArt previously, and had nothing but good experiences.

 

And thank you @SteveM for your mention of Marcus Sesko; I just ordered one of his books after digging into that reference.

 

Still blown away by those of you who can extract a likely time period/region/school just from the attributes of the blade.  Thank you all very much for weighing in! 

Unrelated to the previous content.. but I asked AoiArt if they could facilitate some koshirae being created for the blade, and they did have someone there in Japan that was willing.  I'm not sure where having new koshirae made for a koto blade falls on the scale of 'proper to do'.. but I want the opportunity to hold it as it would have been when it was 'in use'.  Coming from a more western/hema background, I'm just curious how nihonto feel in the hand and move in comparison.  To be clear I will not be doing any cutting/drilling/manic waving around of any nihonto, just figured it deserved a fresh outfit

 

Anyway, hope everyone had a great holiday and thanks again for the info/feedback!

[vfl]

On 12/17/2023 at 3:25 AM, JonP said:

It’s beautiful, who cares about the nit picky details. Of course you will enjoy any details and information garnered but don’t let them get in the way of the joy and duty of ownership. The 3 peg holes alone show it has a hell of an history. Enjoy your new piece of history and craftsmanship. 
One query, why doesn’t the price show up, I’m very interested to know how much such a thing is from Japan and what they charge for the delivery etc. Green with envy 🤗

 

Jon, when I ordered from AoiArt previously, the shipping was included in the auction price.  I purchased this one for 350k yen.  Last time I ordered one, it took just under a month from when I paid to when they were able to get it shipped.  They were very pleasant to deal with and I definitely recommend them. 

[JonP]

14 hours ago, vfl said:

 

Jon, when I ordered from AoiArt previously, the shipping was included in the auction price.  I purchased this one for 350k yen.  Last time I ordered one, it took just under a month from when I paid to when they were able to get it shipped.  They were very pleasant to deal with and I definitely recommend them. 

That’s a really nice piece for around NZ $3500 I’d pay that any day. Well done.

[vfl]

On 12/15/2023 at 1:43 PM, Jussi Ekholm said:

Steve is giving some amazing advice as usual

 

I do think Kongōbyōe school might be a reasonable direction to look towards to. Unfortunately it is minor school with not too much information. I do think the "contrasting layers" on the blade would fit well within the craftmanship of the school. Also good to note that smiths of the school often signed Mori X

However I think the signature itself might not be of the common style of the school. Kongōbyōe signatures are often quite large in size. Unfortunately I don't have Kongōbyōe Moritsuna swords on record.

 

Here are some reference swords

Moritaka: https://toyuukai.jp/products/金剛兵衛盛高作-特別保存刀剣鑑定書-katana-kongou-hyoue-moritaka-saku-品番-ｋａ

Moritaka: https://buyee.jp/ite.../auction/h1107353776

Moritoshi: https://www.token-ne.../juyo-moritoshi.html

Morikiyo: https://ginza.choshu...rikiyo_kongobyoe.htm

Morishige: https://hyozaemon.jp...ct/minamotomorisige/

 

@Jussi Ekholm

 

Thank you very much for listing the kongobyoe references.  I can certainly some similarities.. I bet mine had the iriyama-gata before they cut it down.  The itame-hada also seems pretty consistent between mine and most of the examples.  And I see what you mean about the signatures.. I am also curious about why the mei portion on the one I purchased seems to be on a raised area where the shinogi isn't as pronounced..

 

More questions than answers, as always. Thanks again!